Sephardim And Driving Nazi Cars

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  • #1668730

    The Frumguy
    Participant

    It bothers me when I see many of our Sephardic brothers drive around in a VW, BMW, Audi or another German-made car. Although I realize that they were generally spared the horrors of the Shoah, why can’t they feel for those of us Ashkenazim who can’t stand to see a Jewish person driving a German car?

    #1668808

    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    Why only sfardim? My father in law isn’t a sfardi and he drives a Volkswagen and my mother in law’s family escaped the nazis Ym”s

    #1668816

    rebopy
    Participant

    My friend rented a german car for two days. As he past the toll booth an MTA officer pulled him over and told him, shame on you I would never drive such a car as my father helped liberate the death camps and I’m not even Jewish.

    #1668817

    akuperma
    Participant

    What about American, British and French cars.? It isn’t like there government’s were blameless.

    Should we boycott goods from the European Union on the theory that it is a successor to Rome?

    Mind you, virtually no one now owning stock in, or employed by, any of those corporations was a Nazi.

    Did you ever compare notes with African Americans who blame all whites for things that happened in North America in the 17th through mid-19th centuries? You would find you have a lot in common.

    #1668827

    Joseph
    Participant

    Akuperman: I meant to thank you for the ride I enjoyed in your BMW.

    #1668834

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    What about American, British and French cars.? It isn’t like there government’s were blameless.

    Not blameless, but you still can’t compare.

    #1668835

    ubiquitin
    Participant

    “why can’t they feel for those of us Ashkenazim who can’t stand to see a Jewish person driving a German car?”

    I dont really understand. why do they have to chaneg thier habits to satisfy your meshugas.

    Ok perhaps “meshugas” is a bit strong, but it certainly isnt based on anything logical. Just because the grandfather of today’s shareholders were horrible people, is a reason not to but the cars ?

    Ok, if it bother s you dont buy it . but why do others have to agree with you?

    #1668852

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Rebopy, the MTA officer was way out of line.

    #1668855

    Heargod
    Participant

    U know most cars in Israel are German made.
    Why do u pick on the sphardim when there are many ashchinazi in Israel with the cars? Are u racist ?

    #1668859

    FSM
    Participant

    How do you feel about the Israel flag? The Zionists contributed significantly to the Holocaust. ,

    #1668914

    The Frumguy
    Participant

    Heargod: Part of Germany’s reparations to Israel for World War II was the export of its cars at highly- subsidized prices. So taking “advantage” of this by buying a German car is the way Israelis help Germany “make good” (if possible) on reparations. This doesn’t apply to Americans buying these cars.

    #1668946

    jerkoq12
    Participant

    Homemade Chalah Bosch Mixer !
    Homemade Potato Kugel Braun Food processor!
    Iron ? Rowenta !
    Clean House Miele Vacuum !

    #1668954

    Heargod
    Participant

    The Frumguy: do you think it makes a difference to the 150,000 survivors of the war, do u think cars or money makes them feel better? You think they think, ok, Germany is trying to make amends. Most of the survivors do not want to see anything German even if it’s given free, for to them nothing can really make them feel better about their whole family, whole extended family got brutally murdered. If Germany was sincere and concerned about the survivors they should have just given money and let Israel use it for good and not have the German cars in everyone’s face. The ashchinazim in Israel should have been more sensitive to this issue too.

    #1669065

    Yserbius123
    Participant

    …he says while typing his words on a device with systems invented by IBM, one of the biggest supporters of the Concentration Camps.

    #1669117

    Mammele
    Participant

    It’s pretty hard to avoid all German products, but I can understand those that are against buying really expensive items from them vs. say aspirin.

    I’m not here to judge anyone, but it’s wise to keep an open mind about this and at least acknowledge the other side of the argument.

    On a similar note, there were survivors that did not want to apply for or accept money from the Germans aka wiedergutmachung so as not to give them zchusim or absolve them from their guilt. (I don’t remember in which book I read that the reason for the Germans’ success post WW2 when historically most enemies of the Jews became non entities after expelling or murdering their Jewish populace, was precisely because of the restitution they gave which somewhat mitigated their collective onesh.)

    The word wiedergutmachung itself is offensive when you think about it. No money in the world can whitewash the atrocities that the Nazis did to us Yidden. In a perfect world, with survivors not so desperate for money (rightfully so) no one would have accepted it.

    #1669133

    Avi K
    Participant

    How many Germans today were even around during the Holocaust? Blaming them is like blaming us for killing Yushki. As for the reparations, paradoxically it was this money that built Israeli industries and enabled Israel to double its population in ten years.. Up until then there was a severe austerity program with food rationing.

    #1669135

    Maggid of Pinsk
    Participant

    should sephardim not do barbecues because of the spanish inquistion?

    #1669137

    apushatayid
    Participant

    While we’re at it, lets expand the list to all those “italian” shoes and clothing stores, theie grandparents were responsible for churban beis hamikdash, found throughout, BP, WilliB, Monsey and other communities. Let’s also add all xtian owned products since their grandparents have been hounding us for 2 plus millennia.

    #1669138

    frumshmurda718
    Participant

    This is one stupid thread. You know Henry Ford (inventor of the car) was a rabid antisemite who’s company funded Nazi Germany? Now y’all gonna say cars are assur

    #1669210

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Cars are assur.

    #1669211

    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    @frumshmurda718

    That was one incorrect comment. Henry Ford did not invent the automobile.

    1886 is regarded as the birth year of the modern car when German inventor Karl Benz patented his Benz Patent-Motorwagen. Cars became widely available in the early 20th century. One of the first cars that were accessible to the masses was the 1908 Model T, an American car manufactured by the Ford

    Edited

    #1669229

    beisyosef
    Participant

    As my friend’s grandfather who went through the camps and drives a Mercedes says, “they put us through a living hell, the least they can do is give us a decent car”.

    #1669235

    DISCOVERHASHEM
    Participant

    My grandfather was sephardic and lost many aunts, uncles, and cousins at the hand of the Nazis. He moved from Greece to America with his immediate family before the Nazis obliterated his community. He became a succesful businessman here and bought an awesome brand new Mercedes two-seater sports car. He drove it until his mid-90s. I am so proud of him for all that he accomplished and think that an awesome sports car, regardless if it was made by Germans (some of which may have been nazis), is the least he deserves. Blindly labeling German products as Nazi is absolutely ridiculous. It is racism. Yes, you can be racist against Germans. Not all Germans are Nazis. Just like not all Jews are involved with money fraud. Some might’ve been but you can’t label a group based on the actions of some.

    #1669294

    NOYB
    Participant

    Again with this stupidity? None of these companies are even the same companies as they were during the war. They have all been bought and sold and reorganized a million times. The parts are made in China and final assembly is in Mexico. It’s one thing if you are a survivor who gets flashbacks if you see a symbol you saw in the camps or something, but if you just want to boycott everything made by someone who wronged the Jews, enjoy your cave on a desert Island.

    #1669316

    The Frumguy
    Participant

    According to historical reports, Hitler, Yemach Shemo, actually commissioned the Volkswagen Corporation to build cars to suit him and the Third Reich. That’s why I chose Volkswagen.

    #1669366

    Genya
    Participant

    First of all it’s a fallacy that Sephardim weren’t murdered in the Shoah.

    The largest Sephardic community in Europe was Greece (75,000). About 90% were transported to Auschwitz and killed.
    In the Bulgarian occupied territories of Thrace and Macedonia (12,000) 90% were transported to Auschwitz and killed.
    The next largest Sephardic community was Yugoslavia. About 90% were killed in Yugoslavia by local Fascists.
    Part of Italian Jewry was of Sephardic origin.About 20% of Italian Jews were transported to Auschwitz and killed.
    There was a small Sephardic community in the Netherlands. Like 90% of Dutch Ashkenazic Jews, they too were transported to Nazi death camps in Poland and killed.
    Part of North African Jewry was of Sephardic origin. Once the Nazi troops overran North Africa ,several thousand North African Jewish men were sent to labor camps where many died.

    Next it’s not only the show off SY’s who park every conceivable brand of German cars in their Mcmansion driveways in Brooklyn and Deal, it is also the Russian/Ukrainian Jews, who took the biggest hit from the german butchers who think it’s wonderful to drive a german car. Plus you’ll see the occasional CLUELESS yungerleit who knows next to nothing about the Shoah proudly speeding down Ocean Parkway in one.

    ES POST NISHT TO DRIVE A CAR WITH A SYMBOL ASSOCIATED WITH THE BUTCHERS OF OUR PEOPLE!

    #1669407

    Takes2-2tango
    Participant

    Just curious why bmg recently went and opened up a kollel in germany.
    Its mind boggling to say tbe least!

    #1669622

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    DISCOVERHASHEM, Germans are not a race.

    #1669756

    WinnieThePooh
    Participant

    Takes2, because there are a lot of Jews in Germany, many from the former Soviet Union, who were robbed of their heritage. What greater victory over Hitler (and Stalin, et al.) can there be than to teach them Torah, especially in the place where the war against the Jews started? A much better way to respond to the Holocaust than to build museums at concentration camps, no?
    That said, I personally would not be able to live in Germany, walk those streets, hear the language, but I understand the significance of those who are doing it.

    #1669787

    Takes2-2tango
    Participant

    There is a reason why chazal put a ban on yiddin to live in mitzrayim. You thing bmg kollel would be exempt from going there too?

    #1670300

    WinnieThePooh
    Participant

    They’d have good company in mitzrayim- the Rambam in his time, R Ovadiah Yosef (was sent to be Rav there to be mechazek the community when he was young), and many others.

    Just wondering, you’re ok with kiruv yeshivos in Russia and Poland and Ukraine and France? The people of those countries persecuted and killed us too, even before and/or after Hitler.

    It is interesting that the chachamim made a cherem on living in Spain (some say it only applied to yotzei sefard), yet no similar official cherem was put on ashkenazic lands. So while it is unpleasant, it is also sometimes necessary.

    #1670413

    Avi K
    Participant

    Takes, actually the Torah says not to go back. There are an umber of terutzim regarding Rambam. That it is only with the intention of going permanently, that it only applies to all of Am Yisrael.

    Winnie, so how can you hear Yiddish, which is a dialect of German? As for Spain, there is no source for that story. Why just Spain and not England and France, which also expelled their Jews. How about not living in St. Louis, which is named after the king who burned the Talmud? In any case, many chramot become dead letters. For example, there was once a prohibition against a single man between the ages of 20 and 60 living in Jerusalem. Rav Ovadia noticed that nobody was paying attention so he finally convened a bet din to repeal it.

    #1670680

    WinnieThePooh
    Participant

    AviK don’t worry, the little yiddish I hear doesn’t remotely sound like German. But let’s not get sidetracked by your opinions on Yiddish please.
    As far as Spain vs other countries, I was pointing out the same inconsistency you were.

    #1672877

    Yaakov
    Participant

    @genya
    “Next it’s not only the show off SY’s who park every conceivable brand of German cars in their Mcmansion driveways in Brooklyn and Deal, ”

    Don’t hate.

    #1673446

    Lucy
    Participant

    Discover.
    Germany killed the Jews as a country. It wasnt some individual people. Yes there may be some outstanding germans that did not agree, but it would be fair to say that german=nazi.

    #1673502

    yitzchokm
    Participant

    Mercedes BMW and Volkswagen used Jewish slaves to enrich themselves.
    Henry Ford was an anti-semite. As are most goyem

    #1673557

    writer
    Participant

    These companies arent still related to the past? What about when Siemens proudly announced their new vacuum cleaner the Zyklon? Oops they never knew about the connection they claimed. Even though they used slave labor by the Holocaust.

    Also you can’t compare not using italian products since they are connected to Rome of past. I mean seriously some of our grandparents have either survived or been murdered in the Holocaust. On the other hand lahavdil elef, for the Germans some of their grandparents were the ones who killed us. And don’t kid yourselves many Germans passionately hate Yidden.
    It’s true we can’t avoid everything. Even jpmorgan Chase froze french Jewish bank accounts even before they were asked to do s by Germany. And the list goes on and on. But a Volkswagen or a mercedez surely is easier to avoid.

    It’s also true that most of the world hates us. Even Samsung had an anti semitic fit with one of their Jewish investor/partner. Europe hates us and even many Americans do. But it still doesn’t mean we should buy German. That was a direct hit. And most of those companies either originated or flourished in that time on our backs. Look into it even orange fanta was known as a Nazi y”m drink since they ran out of coca cola ingredients. And coke recently aired a banned commercial in German accent which said, just like the good old times.

    #1673565

    Genya
    Participant

    @yaakov

    No hate involved, just stating the facts.
    Don’t project YOUR hatred to me.

    #1673738

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Lucy, what about those born after?

    #1683299

    Mistykins
    Participant

    There is a difference between hating a Nazi and hating a German. I will never forget my grandmother (who immigrated from Germany) telling me that her Xtian neighbor was taken away for helping Jewish families, and I am never to judge a person by their background instead of their behavior. It’s hypocrisy to hate all Germans for what their grandparents did, and then complain when people judge all of Lakewood (or Brooklyn, KJ, etc) for the few people arrested for Medicare fraud. Too many GOOD innocent people are getting hurt because of the Chillul Hashem of others.

    Also, I drive a Toyota that was built in America and ignore the fact that Japan was a German ally, and Americans locked up Japanese in the 40’s. Seems like most of Lakewood feels the same way.

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