Serving Alcohol To Bochurim And Sem Girls And Kids

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  • #601121
    Baloochi
    Participant

    Should one serve alcohol to bochurim and sem-girls (& kids) when they come for the shabbos meal. If yes should it be light alcohol i.e beer, shandy, cider, choc-liqure Or heavy i.e whisky, brandy, wine? And When Should it be served early on or later?

    #835332
    aries2756
    Participant

    NO! If you have wine for kiddush, do what you normally would do and offer a little kiddush wine then take the bottle off the table.

    #835333
    Sam2
    Participant

    Dina D’malchusa.

    #835334
    gregaaron
    Member

    Assuming the parents don’t mind, a little bit (in moderation, of course) won’t hurt anyone.

    (Obviously, if we are talking about kids who have never had a drink before, all bets are off.)

    #835335
    gregaaron
    Member

    FYI @Sam2:

    Assuming the question is about Eretz Yisroel (considering he mentions seminary girls), it is not against the law (the drinking age is 18, and most bochurim/sem girls are at least that old when they’re there).

    #835336
    yitayningwut
    Participant

    Sam2 –

    I Googled underage drinking in New Jersey and a link came up with all of the laws that included the following sentence:

    Exemptions: Any underage person or persons who possesses or consumes alcoholic beverages in connection with religious observance, ceremony or right or consumes or possesses an alcoholic beverage in the presence of and with the permission of the parent , guardian, or relative who has attained the legal age to purchase and consume alcoholic beverages.

    So “dina d’malchusa” is not necessarily relevant.

    Furthermore, Baloochi’s question is relevant in places outside the US where drinking ages can be significantly younger.

    Personally I think there is no reason – in a normal situation – to be serving alcohol to kids, because you gain nothing, and chances are they will abuse it.

    As an aside, I think that sentence is supposed to say “ceremony or rite,” not “ceremony or right.” If it’s the way it’s written there’s probably a lot more room in the law to be meikil.

    #835337
    ItcheSrulik
    Member

    chayiv inish levisumai.

    #835338
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    I don’t know.

    It seems a bit weird to be sitting there drinking scotch and not offer any to the people at the table.

    It seems a bit weird to not drink what you usually drink because there are other people’s kids there.

    I do concur with aries’s sentiment that serving alcohol to kids carries risks. But, I’m not sure where that line is. I have no reason to think the age is 21.

    #835339
    yeshivabochur123
    Participant

    To boys over bar mitzvah but not to girls or at mixed meals

    #835340
    winny1
    Participant

    Definately not. You should never encourage the use of alcohol and you should also realize that if they are minors you are breaking the law and are liable if they get into some sort of trouble as a result.

    #835341
    stamamen
    Member

    Bar mitzvah and up drink kiddish wine.

    #835342
    cinderella
    Member

    Me and a friend (well, not really a friend) were once guests at a strangers house for Shabbos and my friend kept on downing glass after glass of wine. She ended up finishing an entire bottle and actually got drunk. It was not a pretty sight. (But she was the same girl who brought wine, beer and tequila on our high school shabbaton so her alcohol abuse issues started way before that) Needless to say, we were never invited back.

    Moral of the story: …I guess the smart thing to do would be to not offer them alcohol but keep it on the table and if you see it getting out of hand, take it off the table.

    And no, she is no longer my friend.

    #835343
    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    hey itchie,

    haven’t seen you around that much

    personally I would never let anyone underage drink

    #835344

    No.

    I recently this.

    It was completely and utterly wrong.

    Even more so if you are an adult, role model figure in the childrens lifes

    #835345
    gregaaron
    Member

    @Poppa:

    +1

    #835347
    Nechomah
    Participant

    I was very upset when I found out that during Simchas Torah dancing men gave my 13yo son alcohol. OK, once maybe, just to be yotzei the inyan and say “I did it”, but more than that, no way. His “friend”, also just 13yo, went home throwing up because he was drunk. That’s simchas YT?

    #835348
    jmj613
    Participant

    never happened by us to have yeshiva boys or girls for shabbes but it doesnt seem toooo right to offer. and cinderella its sad that ur ex not real friend is misusing alcohol there must be a reason for this…what i did see was bucherim under 18 on purim that got sooo drunk during the day drinking here and there and it wasnt a pretty sight. i agree that purim a little is ok but it seems noone cared to look what this boy(age 15 max)was doing

    #835349

    I remember when the drinking age was 18 and the voting age was 21. The country was a lot better off then.

    Really, under what possible circumstances would anyone offer alcohol to teenage guests? Kiddush wine? maybe. L’chaim? I don’t think so. Wine with the meal? Only in France.

    Whether or not a violation of law occurs apparently depends on the individual State’s laws. (See post by yitayningwut above)

    #835350
    cantoresq
    Member

    I have no problem letting my 11 year old son have a little of my beer or scotch when I’m with him. He also likes to take a few mililiters of liquor at kiddush; he thinks the cough syrup tasting dreck is cool. But I won’t ever give anything to his friends, unless a parent is there as well. In short I’ll take responsibility for my kid imbibing a little under controlled circumstances, but not for others.

    #835351

    @cinderella

    i’m looking for a shidduch, she sounds perfect!! (completly serious)

    #835352
    apushatayid
    Participant

    So, the question really is. Should hosts serve alcohol to minors. Why would you want to?

    #835353
    Health
    Participant

    Baloochi -Now why would I want to give them my booze? That would mean less for me! ;0

    No seriously, a little wine from Kiddush and a small amount of schnapps (a drop in a shot glass, not full up) between the fish & meat is fine. Nothing more!

    #835354
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    At a normal shabbos meal friday night:

    I usually have a just a bit of kiddush wine. Maybe an ounce.

    Then, after the appetizer, I’ll usually have 1 or 2 shots of fine scotch. Maybe a third if the meal is long.

    Then, during the main, I’ll usually have 2 or so glasses of premium craft beer. And probably another with dessert.

    And that’s just what I do.

    #835355
    Baloochi
    Participant

    My real question was about adult boys and girls who are of age to drink.

    My veiw is kids should be allowed a sip at the end of the meal (if they behave).

    I very often have the afore-mentioned eating by me shabbos meals. Should I give in or not? truth to be told i have a couple ‘lechaims’ my-self, should i supply to them as well. and is it my responsibilty to say when enough is enough so that they don’t stumble out absolutely plastered?

    It sure does lighten the atmosphere which is great when your having strangers.

    #835356
    apushatayid
    Participant

    do seminary girls drink?

    #835357
    adams
    Participant

    No don’t serve them alchohol. There would be peer pressure to have some if everyone else did. It might affect their judgement regarding a Shidduch.

    Popa, you are definetly drinking to excess. you are absorbing amounts that I used to drink as well. To get buzzed, blitzed, sedated.

    I strongly urge you to give up the alchohol. Can you go this Shabbos with no alchohol?

    BTW, you are also spending good money from what I can see, you are spending over $50 a week on alchohol am i on target?

    #835358
    yitayningwut
    Participant

    It’s gotta be Burboun.

    #835359
    Baloochi
    Participant

    @apushatayid

    Of-course they do, infact they react far more quickly then bochurim.

    When i do serve alcohol the bochurim can down a few pints and still shtell good dvar torah.

    The girls on the other hand drink a couple cups of wine and get flushed and are suddenly in a rush to leave.

    I WANT ANSWERS TO THE ORIGINAL QUESTION PLEASE – IN TIME FOR SHABBOS. AS I AM HAVING GUESTS AGAIN.

    #835360
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    Adams: I go many shabbosim without alcohol. It depends if I am eating at home. If I eat elsewhere with only soda, I drink soda.

    Also, there is no such thing as a shabbos only addiction. It would make no sense.

    That is not close to 50 a week. A 6 pack costs 8 bucks. A bottle of scotch is say 40, and has 25 shots. So 1.60 per shot.

    Total for 2 meals equals $16 assuming average 5 shots and a 6 pack over shabbos. Wife doesn’t drink.

    What was your math?

    #835361
    adams
    Participant

    OK Poppa, but its’ a developmental addiction. I thought those beers were higher sorry. It;s just a very large portion.

    OP, don’t serve alchohol, grape juice and make those funny looking colorful drinks.

    #835362
    zahavasdad
    Participant

    I do not serve Alcohol to anyone under 21 (Or at least if I think they are under 21) UNLESS either their parent (or grandparent) is looking right at me and says you can pour for them

    And if they ask I tell them that they must have their parent tell me its OK

    #835363
    apushatayid
    Participant

    “Of-course they do,”

    I must have had girls from the other seminary for the seuda last week. They wouldnt even drink grape juice.

    #835364
    cinderella
    Member

    cleverjewishoun- lol 🙂

    Actually, I have to admit that I was also part of the group who had brought alcohol on our senior shabbaton. I just stuck with beer though and did not get drunk. It was irresponsible and immature and I really regretted it afterward. But alcohol is a big problem and not just with guys.

    So my advice to you Baloochi is to leave the alcohol on the table but monitor it. Don’t offer them any.

    #835365
    Baloochi
    Participant

    Thanks cinderella first one to speak some sense. ta.

    Other ideas still welcome.

    #835366
    Health
    Participant

    Baloochi – Yea? And what was wrong with my suggestion?

    #835367
    BTGuy
    Participant

    lol @ cleverjewishpun.

    #835368
    apushatayid
    Participant

    I will say this much. If you are hosting bachurim and seminary girls for the same meal, definitely keep the booze away from the guests.

    #835369
    R.T.
    Participant

    My response usually goes like this: I’m in my 40’s and I don’t drink; so why should you? That usually downplays any interest in alcohol.

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