May 20, 2021 8:38 am at 8:38 am #1975391benshapiroParticipant
I go to a shul where they set up the kiddish during mussuf should I switch shulsMay 20, 2021 10:14 am at 10:14 am #1975483lowerourtuition11210Participant
at what point in mussaf? is it a mass of mispallelim or one person setting up? a little more information is necessary.May 20, 2021 10:15 am at 10:15 am #1975492ubiquitinParticipant
A proper kiddush should be too big to set up during mussaf, you want at least during laining, ideally they set up during shacharis
Oooor they are davening mussaf way too long.
either way switchMay 20, 2021 10:15 am at 10:15 am #1975494☕️coffee addictParticipant
I’ll let commonsaychel answer you 😜May 20, 2021 10:56 am at 10:56 am #1975504ujmParticipant
It depends what they serve for kiddush. Is the food good, at least?May 20, 2021 11:57 am at 11:57 am #1975526
let me rephrase the question to see the half-full side:
I go to a shul where they do not start drinking until mussaf is over! and they do not even do it in the shul itself.
An added bonus: if they were doing this the whole year, you may not need a vaccine, you already probably had a booster also.May 20, 2021 12:01 pm at 12:01 pm #1975541n0mesorahParticipant
In your opinion, what is the better option?May 20, 2021 12:01 pm at 12:01 pm #1975534
PS the core question is – where is the rov during the mussaf, aka kiddush setup. Not just “rov” as in “hakham”, but the majority? if only a few people set up kiddush, then the rest are true tzaddikim that are resisting the temptation, (daf yomi warning) – as Ovadia who lived amonf 2 reshayim.
R Eliezer Silber talked with a Nazi camp survivor who said that he stopped being observant when he saw a religious Jew who had a siddur, who would charge daily meal ration to let others use the siddur. R Silber replied that did you think about all the other people who would give their last food to daven with that siddur?May 20, 2021 8:02 pm at 8:02 pm #1975780funnyboneParticipant
Why does it bother you? In what way are the competing shuls worse than yours that you aren’t sure if you should change?May 20, 2021 11:30 pm at 11:30 pm #1975826TRUEBTParticipant
Walking out after Kedushah for a davar mitzvah would seem to be mutar. That is why we do it for Birkas Cohanim.May 21, 2021 10:59 am at 10:59 am #1975978CTLAWYERParticipant
Who is setting up the Kiddush…………….
Male members of the shul?
Female members of the shul?
Paid employees of the shul?
The caterer’s staff?
It makes a difference.May 21, 2021 11:37 am at 11:37 am #1975989FrumWhereParticipant
I think TRUEBT nailed it. If they’re setting it up in the Shul itself during Musaf, though, that is not a good thing at all and should be stopped. But if the Shul is a good place to daven for you, ie good Rov, no talking, good chavershaft, good for your kids, etc, why would you leave?May 26, 2021 9:03 pm at 9:03 pm #1977815GotAGoodPointParticipant
I’m happy to see that i’m not the only one bothered by this practice.
It’s a problem though, when else could they do it? Keep everybody waiting?
The best would be if somebody spoke then, so nobody would be bored. whoever wants can listen to the drosho, whoever wants can help setiing it up….
It would also help that we could eat in peace, without anybody making a rumbiling annoying background noise while we eat….May 26, 2021 10:22 pm at 10:22 pm #1977839
Seriously speaking, there would be tircha d’tziburah if you don’t set it up on time. Depending on the community, it may decrease shul attendance, and make people come home later, make other family members wait longer. Have less time to sleep or learn on shabbat. So, maybe it is a good thing to do.
It also seems that the shul is reasonably fast davening, rather than saying piyutim and making announcements. I would NOT want to be in a shul where announcements take so long that it is possible to serve a big kiddush!May 27, 2021 12:08 am at 12:08 am #1977869RebYid613Participant
My shul does it before mussaf (I do)May 27, 2021 11:09 pm at 11:09 pm #1978279
> My shul does it before mussaf
Does it make it better for the tanna kama?! How is skipping shaharis better than skipping musaf?
and it is not better for the connoisseurs – who wants a cold cholent?! And people may daven even faster knowing that the cholent is getting cold.June 9, 2021 9:22 pm at 9:22 pm #1981617
I’m all for setting up kiddush after maariv. for then.
what I’m trying to say is why doesn’t anyone make a night kiddush.June 9, 2021 11:40 pm at 11:40 pm #1981639
Participant, in the evening, your family members are waiting at home to fulfill kidush mideoraita, and you will be drinking shnaps in shul? And where women are also in shul, kids are more likely to be in bed at nightJune 10, 2021 12:07 am at 12:07 am #1981654
during the winter, then.June 15, 2021 2:45 pm at 2:45 pm #1983360n0mesorahParticipant
Kiddush at night is part of the service.June 15, 2021 8:25 pm at 8:25 pm #1983512
> Kiddush at night is part of the service.
How is it helping people who are waiting at home?
There is a story about one of the baalei mussar, who started a complicated class after maariv, until his wife told him “they have wives”. He stopped in the middle of the sentence and dismissed the class.June 15, 2021 11:04 pm at 11:04 pm #1983532
indeed, seems like chazal messed up.
they should have learned mussar.June 16, 2021 12:26 am at 12:26 am #1983554
> they should have learned mussar.
They did learn mussar.
When pointing a particular mussar lesson during Daf Yomi, the Rav referred to a story of someone asking a shailah of R Salanter and getting an unusual Mussar response.
The person wondered – Kavod HaRav, where is this psak come from?
– From Gemora
– from Gemora? I did not see that [that is, person asking question knew whole SH’S – AAQ]
– It does say so in MY Gemora
So, you just need to learn with a particular eye
Specifically, in Shabbos Maariv, we have extra piyutim to make sure that the late-daveners (or long-daveners?) can finish and walk back home together with others.June 16, 2021 12:31 am at 12:31 am #1983560
so extra piyutim is ok, kiddush is not.June 16, 2021 1:03 am at 1:03 am #1983567
good question. I presume extra piutim were said by those who finished early, while they are waiting for the rest – otherwise, there is no purpose. People should not leave even without piyutim, it is an aveira to leave someone daven by himself and expose him to dangerous (or improper) travel. Piyutim just help ensure compliance according to my imperfect understanding. For a similar reason, there are mirrors near elevators in high-rise buildings. Waiting for an elevator is a tircha, and people notice it less if they can spend it checking themselves in the mirror. This may be outdated in the time of cellphones.
Kiddush will be after everyone is finished, unless you are suggesting doing Kiddush while others are finishing.
Also, I think, your family will feel differntly waiting for you engaging in davening and a mitzva of securing walk for the friends, rather than in drinking and eating while they are waiting, even as you are engaged in a mitzva (that they are waiting for). Not sure about halakhic category here, but it just does not sound right.
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