Shabbos Food

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  • #1729893

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Known attributes:

    Can be prepared ahead of time
    Considered a respectable food
    Reasonably affordable (purchasable on a weekly basis)

    #1729968

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    respectable food is very subjective

    #1730036

    Milhouse
    Participant

    In the Jewish groceries they sell lima beans for shabbos, by themselves and in a “shabbos combo” with chickpeas. Does anyone have a recipe for those lima beans? I have searched Jewish cookbooks and cooking sites, and not found one.

    #1730039

    Milhouse
    Participant

    Is there such a thing as a “warmplate”? I am looking for something cool enough that I can put hot food in plastic containers on it before Shabbos, and it will keep it hot until dinner, or that I can put cold food from the fridge on it on Shabbos day and it will warm it up but never come to yad soledes bo. Does such a thing exist?

    #1730097

    I use a true “kedeira hafucha” on the blech, by placing an upside down 9×13 baking pan on the blech or an upside down pot (depending on how strong the flame is). I find that it warms (“mafig tzina”) but does not reach yad soldes – of the higher temperatures for y.s.. I also find that it won’t melt the sturdier plastic containers (the cheaper plastics may warp a bit). Experiment a bit what works for you.

    I am very machmir about warming chicken or kugel that has moisture – I consider it bishul if it reaches y.s.

    I am also very machmir on melting congealed liquids (as common on chicken or meats) – which I consider 100% ossur even if it does not reach y.s.

    I know that many yidden are meikil on this, it creates a problem when my husband and I are invited to someone’s seuda and the food served was nisbashel on shabbos (according to chumra). People don’t even think about this halacha and simply wimp out on a real chashash chilul shabbos.

    #1730112

    laskern
    Participant

    If you put the food on when the hot plate is cold on shabbos and you set your shabbos clock to turn it on after you put it on, it does not matter that it becomes yad soledes bo. Since the way you put the food on will not become yad soledes, I think it should be ok.

    #1730188

    laskern
    Participant

    The food which is fully cooked, when taken of the refrigirator, should be left outside to warm up a little.

    #1730256

    laskern
    Participant

    RG, go to a sefardi you won’t any have problem, SA O’CH 318:16 melting congealed liquid foods.

    #1730291

    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    Laskern – PLEASE double check with your rav regarding cooking on Shabbos. I believe you are NOT permitted to put cold liquids on a hot plate and have it turn on on Shabbos. Also, and I don’t remember who wrote it above, I am pretty certain you can NOT heat congealed fat or margarine or any solid in a place where it will melt EVEN IF it will not get to YSB

    #1730353

    Syag, you are right!

    Finally a voice supporting frum adherence to halacha! While Chabad reaches out to rechokim, I reach within to “rechokim” who consider themselves shomer shabbos but aren’t. Too many “frum” yidden are not keeping shabbos or kosher properly. It is appalling! The tragic-comedy is that THEY are the ones that point to thousands of really frum yidden and claim those frum yidden (who have poskim, rabbonim, lomdim) don’t keep proper halacha (because they don’t sleep in a sukka or eat cake before davening). Yes, kol haposel – b’mumo possel.

    #1730379

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Certain fats are solid at air conditioned temperature and liquid at warmer room temperatures.

    #1730396

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Milhouse, I believe that they are just boiled with spices, salt and a little sugar (or perhaps a little too much).

    #1730418

    Syag, you are correct, laskern had posted a suggestion that encourages chilul shabbos r”l.

    #1730445

    where did laskern say anything about liquid? he used the word food.

    RG: you wrote “I am also very machmir on melting congealed liquids (as common on chicken or meats) – which I consider 100% ossur even if it does not reach y.s.” and why if it doesn’t reach yad soledes are you considering it assur? if I take chicken out of the fridge and the congealed fat melts at room temperature why would it be assur?

    #1730447

    and once again RG you use your favorite saying “wimp out” when you are machmir on something. you want to be machmir fine, but using a kulah does mean wimping out.

    #1730443

    Old Crown Heights
    Participant

    Milhouse: Salton Large Cordless Warming Tray at Target for about $80.

    #1730464

    laskern
    Participant

    RG, כל הפוסל במומו פוסל Are you taking about yourself?

    #1730450

    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    Laskern did not *encourage* chilul shabbos. And I read it wrong either way. Your distortions are really frustrating, and knowing you get pleasure out of cheppering people makes me want to vomit.

    #1730452

    RG: im going off topic for a question to you. I peel a cucumber on shabbos with a vegetable peeler, will you eat it?

    #1730454

    laskern
    Participant

    Discuss this:

    שולחן ערוך אורח חיים הלכות שבת סימן שיח סעיף טז
    מג) מותר ליתן (ק) אינפאנדה (קא) כנגד האש מ <כ> מד) במקום שהיד סולדת (קב) <כא> ואף על פי שהשומן שבה שנקרש כג’] חוזר ונימוח. הגה: (קג) מא וכ”ש קדירה שיש מה) בה רוטב שנקרש, שכשהשומן נימוח כד’] אינו בעין, (קד) דשרי. (רבי ירוחם ח”ג) (קה) מב [לט] מו) כה’] ויש מחמירין (ר”ן פרק ב”ט). ונהגו (קו) להחמיר, מיהו (קז) במקום צורך מז) יש לסמוך אסברא ראשונה.

    #1730493

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    In context, laskern was referring to the congealed fat found on chicken and meat, and it is indeed permitted warm that up, according to some, in some circumstances.

    As usual, RGP displays either am ha’aratzus or intentional distortion of the halacha, while insulting those who correctly disagree with him.

    I honestly don’t think the mods should allow his posts.

    #1730504

    laskern
    Participant

    To understand the above Mechaber see the Sefer Minchas Kohen Shaar Sheni, Perek Shlishi.

    #1730509

    laskern
    Participant

    DYת Thank you for standing up for me. If I am machmir and the person I am invited to as a guest is not, can I eat there? If someone is mekabel shabbos early, can he tell someone who has not, to do something for him?

    #1730514

    klugeryid
    Participant

    Who can explain the comparison between being עובר a דין to being מיקל במקום יש על מי לסמוך?

    #1730515

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    ?As usual, RGP displays either am ha’aratzus OR intentional distortion of the halacha, while insulting those who correctly disagree with him”…..

    DY: Why is OR rather than AND…..in most cases he displays BOTH along with some variation of anti-Chabad blather and calling his critics apoikorsim….

    In reality, there are so many great Shabbos afternoon meals that can be served cold, there is no reason to bother with a blech, worry about fire hazards, and having to become consult a food chemist regarding whether there is any congealed fat on the chicken or a small piece of uncooked meat in the cholent. Cold salads with room temperature grilled meats or smoked fish make a great lunch.

    #1730528

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    If I am machmir and the person I am invited to as a guest is not, can I eat there?

    Yes. See משנה ברורה שי”ח ב that where it’s a מחלוקת, there’s no problem of מעשה שבת which is an איסור דרבנן.

    #1730529

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    In reality, there are so many great Shabbos afternoon meals that can be served cold, there is no reason to bother with a blech

    Yes there is. There is a long standing, universal minhag to have hot food on Shabbos day.

    #1730546

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    If someone is mekabel shabbos early, can he tell someone who has not, to do something for him?

    Assuming the whole tzibbur wasn’t mekabel early, it seems that most poskim are meikil. See שו”ע רס”ג י”ז and מג”א, ט”ז, ומ”ב.

    #1730791

    laskern
    Participant

    I jusr wanted to validate my view. We see that what RG is saying iis not correct as you can eat by someone not following your chumras. About eating hot, we want to show that we don’t follow the keroim about cooking on shabbos which was started erev shabbos.

    #1730809

    laskern
    Participant

    DY, What do you think of putting room temperature food on a cool hot plate which later be turned on with a shabbos clock and will reach yad soledes bo?

    #1731140

    laskern,
    you said it is muttar,
    then you brought the Ramo:
    ויש מחמירין
    ונהגו להחמיר
    מיהו במקום צורך יש לסמוך אסברא ראשונה.

    That means the Ramo holds it IS ossur and that is the custom of frum Yidden (to prohibit it), except when there is necessity one can be lenient (meikil) to allow it.

    #1731168

    laskern
    Participant

    RG, I did not tell you that you should do it. You said you will not eat by someone who does not follow you, then I said to you, go to a sefardi and even according to the RMA there are who to rely on and Daas Yochid said you can eat by them.

    #1731171

    Neville ChaimBerlin
    Participant

    “and why if it doesn’t reach yad soledes are you considering it assur?”
    Ask your rov. In this case, RGP is not wrong. There may be some who are meikel, but he isn’t making up a chumrah this time.

    Also, Laskern, at the very least what you’re describing would probably be nolad. Particularly in your first post in which you didn’t clarify that you were talking about already-cooked foods, which gave the impression that you might have even been implying that you can put raw foods on a timer to go off on Shabbos. As for having cooked food that goes into Shabbos hot, gets cold during Shabbos, then gets reheated via timer, I would imagine if that were mutar then everyone would be doing it.

    #1731832

    Neville – “In this case, RGP is not wrong.”

    RGP is never wrong!

    There are just different levels of right. Sometimes I am right l’chol ha’deyos. Sometimes I am right according to a certain shitah that holds like me.

    Even when I am not right, I am not wrong. Believe me , I can print a sefer and be my own source (and post an ad for it on YWN.)

    #1731892

    laskern
    Participant

    RG, according to you following the Beis Shamai is not wrong because there is a view like you.

    #1731901

    Didn’t the thousands of students of Bais Shamai follow Bais Shamai? These were Tannoim, Tzaddikim, like malochim! Where they wrong? R’ Tarfon lied down to say kriyas shema like Bais Shamai. If it was wrong, why did such a great Taana do so?

    (BTW – would R’ Tarfon need to say over kriyas shema since he did not do it in the manner of Bais Hillel which is the halacha? In other words, did lying down “passel” his shema, like eating matza without heseiba, one must eat again the matza in the proper manner?)

    #1732005

    laskern
    Participant

    Look at the Rabbenu Yonah on Brochos whether on who follows R’ Gamliel by Krias Shma, a small sukkah whether he is yotzei. Can the chazal take away a biblical mitzva? The Mishneh Lamelech (Rambam Hilchas Trumas 7:1) questions if a kohen is impure with a tuma derabonon and eats Truma is he chayev misoh?

    #1731996

    laskern
    Participant

    R’ Tarfon was a great anav who admitted himself he did wrong see Brochos Mishna (1,3) not like you. As mentioned before once the Shulchan Aruch was accepted by a majority we are bound to abide by it. The sefardim say לכו אל יוסף כל אשר יאמר לך תעשו and the ashkanezim say ובני ישראל יוצאים ביד רמה.

    #1732014

    ZionGate
    Participant

    C’mon Rebbetzin, you know very well that R’ Tarfon was told by the tanaim that he was mischayav benafsho for following the Bais Shammai ( Brachos, Mishne3).
    Besides vapor, is it possible to slip something jolly into a hookah??… 🤣🤣🤣

    #1732026

    laskern
    Participant

    RG, I don’t think he has to repeat the mitzva because according to the Beis Hilel you can say it being in any positiin which inckudes lying down.

    #1733075

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    DY, What do you think of putting room temperature food on a cool hot plate which later be turned on with a shabbos clock and will reach yad soledes bo?

    Dies the food have liquid in it? What type of hot plate is it?

    It’s probably not assur mei’kar hadin either way, but I’ve seen poskim say not to set a coffee maker for Shabbos morning because of zilzul Shabbos, and that may apply here as well.

    #1733095

    laskern
    Participant
    #1733276

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Laskern, my answer here was not according to R’ Moshe.

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