shabbos for charedi cops

I imagine they ain’t gonna work on Saturday.

Actually I always wondered what would happend in an All Charedi society on Shabbos

You cant shut down everything for Shabbos

You Need people to monitor the Electrical Board for the Electric Company (There ARE people who need Electricity to Live like people on ventalators and Hospitals)

You Need people to man the 911 call center (or whatever you have instead)

You need some pharmacies to be open for emergency drug supplies

You need police , fireman and EMS workers on call

etc

bm (beis medrash?; To your main topic. In a city like New York (or Ramapo), there is always the possibility to exchange shift work with someone else who’d rather have Sunday, or any other day off. In Israel, though, solving this problem could be more difficult. As a matter of fact, one of the Negative side effects of those (stupid, malicious) demonstrations against the Karta parking garage in Jerusalem was that some religious Police Officers had to come to work on Shabbos, probably with a Heter of the Police Dp’t. Rabbis, because the situation was deemed an emergency. On one of the pictures, (of the demonstration) a Charedi cop (with Payos) could be seen trying to control the demonstrators. About the other potential situations that you enumerated. They are being solved without major interruption and according to Halacha.

In Israel its the Charedim who use generators, the more modern use the normal electric grid on Shabbos.

For those who use the Normal Electric Grid there is obviously some good Heter , I havent heard any Posek who ruled those who use the grid are committing Chilul Shabbos

Somebody has to work the grid, otherwise you will have major problems

Goyim can work the grid.

bm: Yeshiva Chofetz Chaim isn’t Chareidi??

And what do you call, for example, Torah V’Daas or Beis HaTalmud alumni?

zd:

Actually I always wondered what would happend in an All Charedi society on Shabbos

You cant shut down everything for Shabbos…

Your question brings up a similar question in a completely Modern Orthodox community:

If people are monitoring the electrical grids for the electric company-

If people are manning the 911 call center-

If people are manning the pharmacies-

If people are manning the police, fire and EMS stations-

…

Then who’s keeping Shabbos?

Maybe you miss the point, there are different levels of Pikuach Nefesh, there is direct Pikuach Nefsh, Someone is having a Heart Attack NOW , there there are people on a Ventalator who would die without it.

Then there is indirect or unintential cause of Pikuach Nefesh. Lets say there is no electricity and one day you need to call EMS and because there is no electricity you cant call EMS, BUT most times you dont need to call, but the one time you need to call, you really need to call and if you couldnt call, someone might die .

This is just food for thought.

Of course Doctors, Nurses , other vital Hospital employees would need to work.

Most people would not fit into these catagories

When you cant walk for a week and limped for a month in pain, it was a big deal and there was more I wont post here that occured because I dont think it would pass the mods

But its all and done with, I am back to the way I was (Although some think I changed my walking)

You missed my point, whether you intended to or not. I understand and remember how emotional the issue is for you, just like this one is and the one about kashrus standards. If you can also see how emotional it is to you, then you should realize how subjective all your assertions are and have been. So how about taking a step back and admitting that these are your biased opinions, and listening a little to the knowledgeable CR folks who are toeing the halachic line.

ZD,

You say “Then there is indirect or unintential cause of Pikuach Nefesh. Lets say there is no electricity and one day you need to call EMS and because there is no electricity you cant call EMS, BUT most times you dont need to call, but the one time you need to call, you really need to call and if you couldnt call, someone might die.”

This seems to be a totally new definition of pikuach nefashos. Where did you see pikuach nefesh defined so in halacha.

You also say “When you cant walk for a week and limped for a month in pain, it was a big deal”

How does this rise to pikuach nefesh? Once you fel and were in danger that would be pikuach nefesh. But that someone should be mechallel shabbos so that you can walk outside without slipping does not appear to be an instance of pikuach nefesh. Nobody says you have to walk out side. In fact, probably you should not walk outside because you are putting yourself into a matzav of pikuach nefashos, which would be ossur.

No I didnt need any therapy and I asked the person where I fell to pay my damages and they gladly did (I only asked that that pay co-pays and a few incidentals)

I will admit I can be emotional about stuff and I know people feel differently than I do on stuff here.

I will say I would rather break shabbos and get an averia so that someone does not fall or get hurt. Let hashem decide if I was right or wrong.

The food Chumras that I have I would never ask anyone to follow them (Like I dont eat Dairy Salad Dressing) and if somone served me Dairy Salad dressing either I would quietly not eat it or make sure it was a dairy meal

You are right, Hashem is the One Who decides who is right or wrong. But it is not a secret what He wants from us, which is why its not about what you or I or “people here” think or feel, but about Halacha based on Torah. Agreed?

After it happend I did check and there are definatly opinions who said it was permissable.

Also even more opinons said it was permitted to salt the ice as well and some said it was only permitted to salt the ice.

And this was even in places without an Eruv.

Hatzolah does have someone man the board 24/7 even on Shabbos and even if there are no calls coming in. Obviously that person could man the board even if no phone calls

ZD,

“Hatzolah does have someone man the board 24/7 even on Shabbos and even if there are no calls coming in. Obviously that person could man the board even if no phone calls”

Manning the board means that they will pick up the phone IF THERE IS A CALL. When there is a call they answer because then there is a specific case of pikuach nefesh. How can you compare that to working in an electric company where you would have to be mechallel shabbos even if there was no reason to even think there is pikuach nefesh? (BTW health facilities have back up generators, they can’t rely on the lectric being immediately being restored)