October 26, 2014 1:43 pm at 1:43 pm #614028JosephParticipant
Can anyone share what experiences they’ve had with the Shabbos Project for yesterday’s Shabbos? Either first-hand or observation.
How successful it was, what you experienced, who participated, what are the results…October 26, 2014 2:03 pm at 2:03 pm #1191667
There were alot of cancellations. People did not want to commit to 25 hours. Most of the people who participated were already frumOctober 26, 2014 2:06 pm at 2:06 pm #1191668ivoryMember
Really? Or your saying this off the top of your head?October 26, 2014 2:16 pm at 2:16 pm #1191669
I spoke to the organizers. And if you looked around at the events you could tell (It was more communal than local)October 26, 2014 2:23 pm at 2:23 pm #1191670The FrumguyParticipant
I didn’t notice any non-frum Yidden walking with a host throughout the entire Shabbos and none in my shul. Even the “Havdalah Event” looked like it was an audience of just (or mostly) frum Yidden. Appears like it was a flop to the extent that they wanted it.October 26, 2014 2:25 pm at 2:25 pm #1191671achosidParticipant
Four shuls that I personally daven in had a grand total of two people on Friday night, and no one on Shabbos day. I plan on continuing to ask around.
Meanwhile, the Agudah of Avenue L had 1,500 people for Kabolas Shabbos……
Apparently, the local resident went for the free Yehuda Green concert.October 26, 2014 2:27 pm at 2:27 pm #1191672FerdParticipant
one thing is for sure, the oilam mingling outside the agudah on avenue L on shabbos after davening was a churban. all in the name of “kiruv” of course.
utterly disgusting. ask anyone who walked past. and no, they werent non-frum people. these were the “fein-shmekers” of flatbush and their ilk.
ps: i personally had a guest on friday night.October 26, 2014 2:42 pm at 2:42 pm #1191673
ZD, FrumGuy – can Jews from the rest of the world weigh in or are your observations from Bklyn pretty determinate of how the project went?October 26, 2014 2:51 pm at 2:51 pm #1191674
ZD’s profile says he’s from Queens, but yes, a couple of reports doesn’t make for anything definitive.
Also, we might be able to quantify how many participated, but I don’t see how we can possibly measure the overall impact on everyone, including the frum.October 26, 2014 2:51 pm at 2:51 pm #1191675
Brooklyn has the largest frum Population in the world (Israel is a country not a city or borough) and Is one of the few places than can really handle a large non-relgious population and there is a large non-relgious population especially Russians who are more open to the idea of a Shabbos and totally non relgious hipsters in Williamsburg or Park Slope who might not be open to the idea.October 26, 2014 3:01 pm at 3:01 pm #1191676October 26, 2014 3:07 pm at 3:07 pm #1191678
and maybe people not exposed to the politics of NY Jewry are also more open to it. I don’t know what you mean by “handle a large non-religious population” but my point was that the two above posts seemed to think their observations were indicative of more than just their observations.October 26, 2014 3:47 pm at 3:47 pm #1191679
LetakeinG & SIDI,
That was definitely a great accomplishment.
I’m not sure the point of the exercise was to get all of Brooklyn, or the US, to have a perfect record of Shmiras Shabbos.
People like the two of you made the the project worthwhile.
Hope it gets easier and easier for both of you to continue!October 26, 2014 4:28 pm at 4:28 pm #1191680
Id love to hear the organizers’ opinions on whether it was more of a success or failure, and why.October 26, 2014 4:48 pm at 4:48 pm #1191682
if ONE person kept shabbos, thought about keeping shabbos, wished they could have kept shabbos, or thought about thinking about shabbos then it was a success.October 26, 2014 4:59 pm at 4:59 pm #1191683
As humans, we make mistakes and try to rectify them.
We see what went wrong and what went right, and we refine and correct.
We dont eliminate Kiruv events!
Perhaps Kiruv events should be held separately for men and women. How about that?October 26, 2014 5:00 pm at 5:00 pm #1191684
At what costs, though?
How many people needing kiruv would show up if held separately?October 26, 2014 5:03 pm at 5:03 pm #1191685
are you for real?October 26, 2014 5:08 pm at 5:08 pm #1191686
Interesting reading the last two comments –
goofus (are you new? welcome!) & Syag,
– one after the other.
Brings us back to the ‘does the end justify the means?’ question that’s been rehashed around here.
That ONE person from Syag’s post who thought about keeping Shabbos & the 2 CR members who didn’t bite their nails a whole Shabbos vs the ‘oilam mingling churban’ described by ferd and denounced by goofus–
Who won? Who lost?
And how do we go forward?October 26, 2014 5:09 pm at 5:09 pm #1191687
Are YOU for real? How many frum Jews will come to events like these for the sole purpose of socializing/potential gilui arayos? Not worth it for some questionably Jewish individuals not taking out their iphones for an hour during shabbos davening, only to go home to call and text their friends and family to let them know how great shabbos is.October 26, 2014 5:10 pm at 5:10 pm #1191688
Golfer – More shabbos guests!October 26, 2014 5:12 pm at 5:12 pm #1191689
How many frum Jews will come to events like these for the sole purpose of socializing/potential gilui arayos?
you must live in a very sad world. Try putting a kiruv krovim project in your area while the rest of us work on spreading the beauty of Torah.October 26, 2014 5:18 pm at 5:18 pm #1191690
Kiruv should be performed by individuals. Hosting people at one’s home for the entirety of shabbos is a good kiruv idea. Perhaps meeting with someone for a chavrusa.
Having a mixed event at which inevitable issurim will occur should not be any torah Jew’s idea of “kiruv.”October 26, 2014 5:20 pm at 5:20 pm #1191691
raising your children in a community where you have to worry about the frum people going to kiruv events for arayos opportunities may be an even bigger problem.October 26, 2014 5:24 pm at 5:24 pm #1191692
I agree, it would be a huge problem.
Thankfully, the scenario you laid out in no way describes me or my situation.October 26, 2014 5:26 pm at 5:26 pm #1191693
that’s hard to believe. We are talking about thousands of people inviting shabbos guests, and frum people looking for arayos was the first thing you thought of.October 26, 2014 5:32 pm at 5:32 pm #1191694
What’s hard to believe? You don’t know where I live. Or if the issue I raised is even prevalent in my community.
And, its not the first thing I thought of, just one thing down the line which came to mind. Although it may not have been the first thing to come to mind, being the fourth or fifth thing in no way discredits the seriousness of the situation.October 26, 2014 5:35 pm at 5:35 pm #1191695Git MeshigeParticipant
I have always wondered why Kiruv Organizations only started 30-40 years ago. There were Non Frum Yidden throughout the ages, why did the Gedolim of those generations not find it necessary to be mekarev them and bring as many yidden back to Yiddishkeit?October 26, 2014 5:35 pm at 5:35 pm #1191696
guessing where you live wouldn’t take much thought.October 26, 2014 5:45 pm at 5:45 pm #1191697
More Shabbos guests sounds like a great idea, Syag!
But I meant ‘how do we go ahead?’ on a communal, organizational level.
Git M brings up an interesting point.
It’s well known that in pre-war Europe many communities suffered from their own ‘off-the-derech’ crisis, losing their young people to the Communists, the Neologs (their version of Conservative), Hashomer Hatzair and other irreligious Zionist movements, and the lure of the Goldene Medina where Shabbos observance sadly fell by the wayside for many.
I’m not aware of any communal, institutionalized attempts to be mekarev those who left Torah and Mitzvos behind. Perhaps on a personal level families tried to remain in contact with their relatives. For many, the response of choice was cutting off communication and staying as far away, and keeping their children as far away, as possible.
The great accomplishments of the major Kiruv organizations can’t be denied. Every Neshama they’ve brought back to living a life of Torah is a monumental achievement. But I’m definitely curious to see if someone offers Git Mesh an answer to his question.October 26, 2014 5:47 pm at 5:47 pm #1191698
Perhaps it’s because the gedolim of previous generations understood cost-benefit analysis of organized kiruv.
I would give you 50 chances to guess a city within 50 miles of where I live. I bet you wouldn’t come close.October 26, 2014 6:01 pm at 6:01 pm #1191699
Thanks Golfer!October 26, 2014 6:53 pm at 6:53 pm #1191700
Perhaps it’s because the gedolim of previous generations understood cost-benefit analysis of organized kiruv.”
Ha! Thats why Chabad is the failure it is! (VERY SARCASTIC)October 26, 2014 6:56 pm at 6:56 pm #1191701
I’m sorry to say, but Chabad has paid a very dear price for their kiruv.October 26, 2014 7:11 pm at 7:11 pm #1191702
Yes, Chabad surely has lost much, with locations and followers around the world, and followers who follow not just because thats the only way they know and are pressured to conform exactly or else!October 26, 2014 7:17 pm at 7:17 pm #1191703
I’m not sure what your point is. I’m not denying the gain, just pointing out that there’s a cost.October 26, 2014 7:29 pm at 7:29 pm #1191704
DY, financial cost or other cost? Please clarify.October 26, 2014 7:33 pm at 7:33 pm #1191705
Other. I would prefer not to elaborate.October 26, 2014 7:37 pm at 7:37 pm #1191706AshParticipant
I thought much of the emphasis was in guiding people to experience their own halachic shabbos not be hosted. There were synagogue rabbis handing out shabbos kits and guides so people could do it themselves.
FWIW I met my irreligious neighbours walking together Friday night on my way back from Shul when they normally drive on shabbos. They were obviously on their way to a shabbos meal.October 26, 2014 10:07 pm at 10:07 pm #1191707
We had community events here. Getting people to host their own first shabbos is not really a good idea. They ran it here like a Shabbaton and the Havdallah concert was like a Kumzitz.
Reading some of these replies reminds me of a flyer I saw, There was a Shiur on the “Halachos of the SHabbos project” with such items like Yayin Nesach and saying a Dvor torah in front of an “Unzniut Woman” as opposed to what Shabbat.com said. Rabbi Klazko also gave rules and they were like Dont discouss certain topics (Like Charedim in the Army and Toeivah) . Sing Songs they guest might know like Havah Negilla and dont get upset if the person does a Malacha or the Phone goes off.
I am no Rav, but I do know that if you a Machmir on Yaayin Nesach and you get upset if a non-religious guest touches it, they are not coming backOctober 26, 2014 10:37 pm at 10:37 pm #1191708
The wine is the least problematic issue. So many delicious wines are mevushal. And it’s not your problem if the guest answers his phone. You aren’t meant to bring him from chillul Shabbos to 100% observance of all 613 before you serve the chicken soup. Hopefully your kids, if they”ll be at the table, can have this explained to them before the guests arrive. Or maybe they”re too little to notice. If they”re old enough to notice, but not old enough for a conversation, then maybe this is not the right time for you.October 26, 2014 11:11 pm at 11:11 pm #1191709amichaiParticipant
would like to hear how it was in the oot communities. such as dallas, houston, seattle, st.louis, etc.October 27, 2014 1:54 am at 1:54 am #1191710October 27, 2014 2:01 am at 2:01 am #1191711
ps, it’s called After the Project about keeping the inspirationOctober 27, 2014 4:11 pm at 4:11 pm #1191713YITZCHOK2Participant
The Shabbos was highly successful!October 27, 2014 5:05 pm at 5:05 pm #1191714cherrybimParticipant
Show me one person who became frum as a result of a kiruv organization/project who would not have done it without the organization’s involvement. That person does not exist. However, these groups are helpful once the individual finds interest in frumkeit on their own, via other means.October 27, 2014 5:27 pm at 5:27 pm #1191715
We have a Mincha Minyan here comprised of people from differnet communites, Brooklyn, Queens and Long Island . Only Queens it seems did it the way it was intended and even they did not get many people.
Queens did not encourage people to make their own shabbos, but rather in a group eventOctober 27, 2014 5:58 pm at 5:58 pm #1191716YITZCHOK2Participant
Not exactly sure what cherrybims point is about kiruv organizations but as far as the Saturday night program goes not sure how the live feed looked as I did not watch it because I was actually there. Being there was very inspiring for me and a my son – but more importantly the unaffiliated Jew from Argentia who sat next to me was very inspired and he did not mind bothering his host who was sitting on the other side of him to explain many of the things that were going on at the event.
I believe many of the negative commenters who are against reaching out to the unaffiliated would have gained much from hearing Charlie Harary’s words motzei Shabbos live.October 27, 2014 6:11 pm at 6:11 pm #1191717
I saw very few unffiliated jews at the Havdallah Concert. I dont know what was on the feed as we had one in my neighborhood and I was there liveOctober 27, 2014 7:29 pm at 7:29 pm #1191718catch yourselfParticipant
“Show me one person who became frum as a result of a kiruv organization/project who would not have done it without the organization’s involvement. That person does not exist.”
Of course, it is impossible to know with certainty that a specific individual would never have become frum had they never had contact with a particular organization.
That said, there are many people whose original contact with Judaism was through a Kiruv organization, and who credit the organization with starting them back on the path to being Frum. Many of these completed the journey with those same organizations.
Your assertion that no such individual exists is flat out wrong, and is a dangerous attack on the neshamos of thousands of as-yet not frum Jews.
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