January 10, 2011 3:18 am at 3:18 am #594082
Why does a shadchan have to return your calls? If you don’t like their way of operating, you are free to use other shadchanim.January 10, 2011 3:27 am at 3:27 am #728145
Nobody has to do anything.
Why do I have to call 911 if I see someone having a heart attack?January 10, 2011 3:31 am at 3:31 am #728146
Theres only one 911 AND there paid upfront with taxes.
Shadchanim you only pay if theres a shidduch. You cant blame a shadchan if he doesnt want to do business with you.January 10, 2011 3:50 am at 3:50 am #728147Bar ShattyaMember
yes. correct indeed. also true is that a human being not returning the call of another human being may forfeit his rights to be referred to as one might refer to a human due to his displayed animalistic tendencies.January 10, 2011 5:25 am at 5:25 am #728148
Unfortunately the really successful and well known Shadchanim, rarely return phone calls. They get too many a day. That is where the problem lies. The Klal needs some other mode of operation. While I agree with what AZ says, I think the tragic shortage of reachable successful Shadchanim is a great part of the problem.January 10, 2011 5:30 am at 5:30 am #728149GabboimMember
How is it that every shidduch I know of – i my family, friends, acquaintances, etc. were all made by friends, family, and acquaintances, and none by professionals? It appears the professionals only represent a tiny portion of shidduchim that are made.January 10, 2011 5:47 am at 5:47 am #728150bein_hasdorimParticipant
The best Shadchanim are family, friends, and neighbors.
Singles! Make yourselves known to your neighbors have your mothers mingle with other women in shul & social events,
or if you’re older do it yourself.
It will save you a from a lot of heartache of chasing and dealing with Shadchanim who only remember the rich.January 10, 2011 5:57 am at 5:57 am #728151
Gabboim, thank Hashem! Not all singles have friends/extended families who know enough people or are willing to put the time in.January 10, 2011 5:59 am at 5:59 am #728152GabboimMember
I don’t know about your circles, but everyone I know does!January 10, 2011 6:06 am at 6:06 am #728153real-briskerMember
cedarurst – They dont, but mentshlachkiet calls for it.January 10, 2011 6:14 am at 6:14 am #728154
Gabboim, so you’ve got a great circle! I know lots of people struggling with no one redding their good kids Shidduchim.January 10, 2011 6:37 am at 6:37 am #728155NAG member 1Member
my dad is not an official shadchan but hes made over 30 shidduchim of people he knows b’hJanuary 10, 2011 6:23 pm at 6:23 pm #728156
Fact: The vast majority of shidduchim are not made by “shadchanim”. (they set up perhpas the majority of dates, by not the majority of made shidduchim).
Fact: Presently there are simply way to few “non-shadchanim” involved in setting up their friends, neighbors etc.
As such tons of girls try to get the attention of shadchanim because to sit back and wait for the call from friends etc that never comes is way way to risky. The result is the small number of “shadchanim” are simply unable to deal with all the people coming to them. They try their best see my earlier post as one shadchan describes her dialy routine) but it’s simply impossible.
Question: what could be done to encourge and empower hundreds more people to spend time redding shidduchim. what could be done to creat a situation where in every grade/school/community there would be sufficient people dedciated to redding shidduchim????
Asnwer: see the model that has been discussed numerous times in other threads and is being implemented succesfully and growing quickly.
Imy”h in a years time it will be tens of communities and tens of schools. NOW that’s a real hope for all the singles out there.January 10, 2011 6:58 pm at 6:58 pm #728157ProfessionalMember
for those who dont have the circles etc – you have to be proactive. start connecting with rabbonim of shuls for men/ rebbetzins for the girls. in shul, develop kesher with people there, get invited for a shabbos meal, get them to know you, let them know you would appreciate their help – they have friends, relatives. if your parents dont do it – do it yourself. you need a large network of ppl know ing about you and activly looking out for you. attend shiurim, dance class for girls etc – connect with people, let them know you exist and available, explain what you are looking for, ask if they have friends/teachers/ mentors who would be familiar with what your are looking for. How about your teachers? anyone who you felt understood what you are about and a good person? get them all on your team.
make yourself visible. in a tznius way of course.
make phone calls from time to time to the busy ones who would not remember to work on your behalf. a gentle reminder. “im ein ani li – mi li”.
I know out of towners, baalei teshuva etc. who worked hard to create a circle of people helping them, and bh met at some point their bashert.
Saying “my mother doesnt socialize, not the type etc” is no excuse. use anyone who is willing to help. make them aware. and daven.
PS To all members of YWN – look out for those who need your help. quite, out of towners, older – just anyone who you can help. its a great zchus to try. Keep trying. Hashem doesnt stop taking care of us. lets follow his derech! invite for shabbos meals, express interest, encourage, try to set up. Apprecaite what you have and share with others.January 10, 2011 7:01 pm at 7:01 pm #728158ItcheSrulikMember
I will point out again that the more strident the poster’s pseudo-frum rhetoric, the worse their middos, and the more offended they are by good middos being expected or exhibited by someone else.
I will keep pointing it out every time that it’s appropriate until you post it.January 10, 2011 7:26 pm at 7:26 pm #728159Divorced_GuyMember
Proposal re redding shidduchim. The Gedolim should encourage every married person to spend one hour a month working on shidduchim for non-relatives. Remember the famous story with R. Yisroel Salanter where someone told him he only has 15 minutes a day to learn and R. Yisroel told him to learn mussar. So he will find more time to learn. I believe that if every married man and women in klal yisroel would spend one hour a month on shidduchim for non-relatives people would find much more time and this problem will be alleviated.
Ofcourse — tell your friends to start redding shidduchim to other people, before they know it those people will return the favor. I know a Rov who was having a hard time with shidduchim for his kids. He decided to start redding for other people and b’h his kids are now married. We all need to devote time to redding for others and this matzav can be improved.January 10, 2011 8:02 pm at 8:02 pm #728160
Divorced_Guy: “Ofcourse — tell your friends to start redding shidduchim to other people, before they know it those people will return the favor”.
I and others have been doing just that for more than 20 years. The excuses are boundless… I never got anyone to go out on a single date…I have no time…Im not the type…
Red tzu der Vant!
Until the Klal comes up with a serious organization – S’iz nisht du mit vamen tzu redden. Attempts have been made, Im thinking of organizations that have been around for years, only they arent really accomplishing. People contact/meet them and never hear from them.January 10, 2011 8:22 pm at 8:22 pm #728161
Compensating for achievable results is the orgnaic way of devleoping tens of effective shadchanim while encourging the masses who have dabbles to NOT quit, because they realize they are SUCESSES even if the couple doesn’t get engaged.
So far in a few trials it has been very effective.
Just yesterday another grade launched it for their classmates.
End of this week imy”h another city will be doing it for the girls in their community. If you are interested in finding out more details contact the NASI Project.
It is very cost effective, it is efficient, and it is a natural organic process rather than tryin to force/beg/cajole people into redding shidduchim.
And the best part about it is that the attention it will generate will be geared towards the slightly older girls.January 10, 2011 9:00 pm at 9:00 pm #728162
AZ, whether right or wrong, most of my friends and acquaintances would never dabble in Shidduchim, no matter what the financial gain might be. Maybe theres another breed of people somewhere who can be introduced to it.January 10, 2011 9:33 pm at 9:33 pm #728163
AZ, why do you suppose that even if a majority of dates stem from proffesional shadchanim, the vast majority of made shidduchim are not from them?January 10, 2011 10:40 pm at 10:40 pm #728164
Of Course: it’s not about the finacail gain. How many of your friends dabbled in shidduchim when they first got married. How many quit out of frustration of lack of success?
In every class there are a few girls who dabble, every school has a few teachers who dabble, every shuls has a few people who dabble. the problem is the quit out of frustration, lack of success etc. this model will solve let. When people recofnize that date number one IS a success and date number four is a BIG success all the dabblers will stay the course and far more people will join.
Cedarhurst: In North America frum community there are aprox: 2,000 shidduchim made each year.
In the counry there are maybe (probably not) 5 shadchanim who consistently make 20-25 per year.
I know people in the CR think shadchanim make 75 shidduchim a year at 3k per shidduch, but they simply aren’t in touch with reality)
Lets say 5 make 25 per year. that’s 125 shidduchim
There are maybe maybe another 40 people who make 10 shidduchim a year. That’s another 400. Total of 525 shidduchim from very active shadchanim.
where are the other 1500 shidduchim coming from?
(my statement about majority of dates may be inaccurate i don’t have any good data on that. I tried to delete it but couldn’t).January 10, 2011 10:44 pm at 10:44 pm #728165
Then again i guess we can discuss the deifintion of a proffesional shadchan. I still have no idea what makes some one “proffesional” and what makes someone who is not proffesional but spends a lot of time trying to help people in the community.
I’d actually be curious for how people define it.
Is having a set fee the criteria- very very few have that.
The 3 shadchanim that i know well who make 25 per year don’t have a set fee.
what’s the definitionJanuary 10, 2011 10:53 pm at 10:53 pm #728166
In North America frum community there are aprox: 2,000 shidduchim made each year.
Onlysimchas has 14,584 engagements in the US and Canada during 2010. I don’t know where you get your numbers from.January 10, 2011 10:55 pm at 10:55 pm #728167
AZ, if just 10 wedding halls in NY have 200 chasuna’s a year each, you have 2,000 shidduchim just from them. And there are more than 10 wedding halls in NY, they probably average more than 200 chasunas a year each, and there is chasunas out of NY too.January 10, 2011 11:10 pm at 11:10 pm #728168
No scientific study was done on the number of engagments. I was taking very rough aprox numbers from Yehiva HS/ Bais Yackov HS graduates (not chassidishe or Modern Orthodox) I should have made that clearer in my post.
In any event. That’s makes it all them more clearer that shadchanim aren’t the ones making the majority of shidduchim.January 10, 2011 11:22 pm at 11:22 pm #728169
That’s ok. I made up the statistic from onlysimchas.January 10, 2011 11:26 pm at 11:26 pm #728170
The wedding hall point still stands.January 10, 2011 11:31 pm at 11:31 pm #728171
Cedar: no to belabor the point but 200 a year per hall is very hight. There are less that 250 possible wedding days in a year (not counting fri nite, shabbos nite and same for yomim tovim, sefira, 3 weeks, chol hamoed etc.)
I think halls wish they where filled EVERY night but they don’t have weddings every single night.
In any event, i’m not sure if it’s a relevant discussion.January 10, 2011 11:47 pm at 11:47 pm #728172
To be fair, I tipped my hand in the inheritance thread, but I knew you wouldn’t read any thread unrelated to shidduchim.January 11, 2011 3:30 am at 3:30 am #728173metrodriverMember
Bein Hasdorim; Your advice (on how to make a successful shidduch) is wonderful. However, there is one ingredient that helps tremendously. A few stacks of One Hundred Dollar Bills. There’s a famous story about a Bochur who was on the short side (Less than 6ft.-3in.) who married a tall girl. People were wondering about the match. To the very nosy (and gutsy) who inquired, the Kallah answered that her Father-in-Law padded his son’s shoes with a few stacks of One Hundred Dollar bills. That evened things out.January 14, 2011 4:10 pm at 4:10 pm #728174Divorced_GuyMember
The stack of Hundreds. I heard the story about Jackie O. She was asked how she married Onassis who was much shorter than her. To which she replied “he’s not shorter when he stands on his money.”
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