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To never caustic i hear what you are saying,but if i meet you and your child and ofcourse i meet the other side also with their child and i feel there is alot in comman.i make the shidduch and both sides are very happy.you dont think i deserve between $3000 and $5ooo if you can afford it.i think for parents it should be the most pleasure way to spend money,(i am talking where the families can pay that amount) i say for all those who dont think it is worth it have never made a shidduch and dont realize what goes into talking to both sides.
edited. Please don’t type in all caps. -95
bpt:
With all due respect, your understanding of this proposal is misunderstood.
There is no reason to have to know the people in question.
U get to know them by asking questions.
As far as your labeling your children, with price tags.
The children are not labeled.It is simple Hakaras Hatov to remunerate for this tremendous Chessed, which removes so much anguish and worry.
i recently started doing this, especially for older ones and it is such chessed for them!
modchebp –
“Getting to know us” in a few meetings and then using that as a basis for suggesting a lifeparnter? I think not.
And when anyone demands / pays the kind of money you are suggesting (even if one / both sides can afford it), it sets the bar too high for most parents to reach.
Truth is, I CAN afford it, but there is no reason I (or any other fine family) should pay it. Just becuase the “market conditions” have created a panic and buying / selling on fear?
Shame on us, if this is what we have come to. How’s this for an idea; lets do away with the “Best bocher / Best seminary mindset and start looking at our children like the children they are, and base our expectations on the reality as it truly is.
Not each us us are million dollar candidates. Despite what the shadchan tells you / says of you.
To I use brains ‘ since you started redding shiduchim you understand what is involved .When i had children in shiduchim the shadchanim never called back ,they made you feel that they are doing you the biggest favor.I am try ing to do this in a correct way with allways returning calls to the girls parents .To do it properly and with yeshuv hadass i need my bills paid.I must tell you there are parents who appreciate what i am doing and they send me a check for hakoras hatov even though i did not make a shiduch ,but just for trying .This is what i am talking about
modchebp:
I have no problem with shadchanim being compensated properly for their time and efforts. I simply think your model is seriously flawed.
As i have posted many times (and is being applied in numerous comminuties as we speak) shadchanim should be compensated for achievable results.
What you can NOT do- get people engaged
What you CAN do – set up dates.
if you would like to run it like a business i suggest you let people know ahead of time you do NOT charge to meet a girl/boy nor to review their resume. IF you get a shidduch off the ground you have one fee if it gets to date #4 it has a additional fee.
This way you are compnesated for the results after the fact. No pressure no expectations.
It works fabulously when it is implemented by communites as is presently being done and spreading quickly.
It works because the financial compensation is nice and -just as important -it works becasue HUMANS like being appreciated for their time and effort and resond in kind. It’s part of the makeup of the creature known as people.
However I don’t like and don’t encourage this concept when it’s paid for by the parents becasue it introduces a added factor in considering whether to start and or continue a shidduch.
However, charging for meeting singles/reviewing resumes simply casues ill will as the singles/their families expect the world because they paid, and no human can deliver results (even if measured in terms of dates or even phone calls) for every person/resume they receive.
As for BPT issue with kids being handed things etc. I simply don’t understand what that perhaps legitmate comment has anything to do with the need for people who redd shidduchim to be compnesated properly.
If I may ask. What has my transmission proven?? When it went it cost over 2 grand. same for a root canal. And did I mention the cost to redo a roof……
Why is compensating and appreciating a shadchan somehow linked to a sense of entitlement on the part of the singles???
“What has my transmission proven?? When it went it cost over 2 grand. same for a root canal. And did I mention the cost to redo a roof……”
To use the examples you list, your transmission, when done right, will give you years of reliable service, and taking it to a good mechanic (one who will stand behind the work that was done) commands a better price. Same goes for dental work. There is real overhead, real training, real results. And you can ask for accountablily, and be rightly miffed if you were mislead.
Is there such a concept in shadchannus? If there is, I’ve yet to hear of one such case. In the old days, substance was valued. Today, media spin is what gets peoples attention. And that is (IMHO) a disservice to the truly great boys and girls (and parents of both) who cannot come up with the artificial price tag.
az member You are probably right about not charging for resume meetings but what price should i charge by date #4 and how much do i charge to get it off the ground?
BPT you are arguing on halacha. Look at the Rama who discusses when a shidduch breaks up before a chassuna. In many situations the shadchan did their role and deserves their compensation(of course if the breakup was becasue of the shadchans deliberate misrepresentation of the situations then they are the cause and a mazik.) Halacha compares a shadchan to a broker. If they close the deal they did their job. If you buy a house please don’t blame the agent if you break a leg next week on the front steps or if you have bad mazal in your new home….
There is no artificial price tag. it’s simply what each communities minhag is to pay.
Perhaps you are confuing a shadchans role with the role of parents schools etc. it is not the shadcahns role to ensure a happy marriage.
The shadchans role is to set up the singles to the best of their ability. certailnly if a shadchan is dishonest etc then they are simply not doing what they pretend to be doing. But it is not the shadchans job to make sure the boy is a mentsch or the girl knows how to be a wife and mother.
Please don’t blame a shadchan for the shortcomings in what parents etc shold be doing..
Either way i think this argument is once again going in circles so hatzlacha…
AZ: If the shidduch is broken BEFORE the wedding, it would be like if the sale of the house was called off BEFORE the sale completed, no? In which case the broker doesn’t get a fee.
Abe: Look at the Rama. (of course if the custom is to return the shadchanus money then that is the halacha. I was simply pointing out what the halahca is if there is no clear cut cusom.).
The point i was making is that halacha views the shadchans role to bring the couple to engagement/chuppah. It is not the shadchans job to ensure that they have a happy marriage. For some reason there are posters in the cr who seem to think the shadchan is responsible for all lack of middos chinuch parnasah etc…
It goes without saying that a shadchan who deliberatley misleads either party is obviously a mazik.
AZ: I’m talking about a case where an engagement is broken before the Chupa. The shadchanus money is still due? (Even if the shadchan wasn’t paid yet when it is broken?) If so, what constitutes an engagement — must their be t’nayim, like the Chasidim do, that is legally binding? Or even a l’chaim, that has no legal force, makes shadchanus due?
“BPT you are arguing on halacha”
“this argument is once again going in circles so hatzlacha… “
With this line, AZ effectivly ended the comversation, so I’m directing my comments to the CR as a group.
No, I’m not arguing halacha. I’m stating that for shadchan to demand such a large fee up front, they should be held to some sort of accountability. From what I’ve seen, there is no such expectation.
The way the system is set up now, its not much different than paying protection money to the mob. The weak links in the chain are exploited. And that is shameful.
Were the discussion what to pay a shadchan for a shidduch you are not happy with, that would fall into the realm of halacha. But to pay a high ticket fee, just because that’s what people feel compelled to pay if they want to get noticed?
I think not.
Abe:
If the shadchanus money wasn’t yet paid it might be different than if it was paid already. I’m not a posek but a simple reading of the rama might indicate that distinction. I would recommend bringing this kind of question to a competent authority.
Q: If a better Shidduch prospect comes along is it alright to cancel a date with someone else?
Rav Chaim Kanievsky
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