Shatnez wool and linen the biblical reason for shatnez

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  • #2543955

    questionable coffee, Beitza 25b, 7 lines above wide lines, R Meir

    your quote Megilla 25 _a_ is also good and looks like a source of different views. for example, Maharal in Tiferes Isroel ch.6 quotes that and similar gemora in Brochos 33 – where he argues with “rationalists” of his time that mitzvos are gezeros – while disagreeing with Ramban on Dvorim 22:6 who says shiluach haken _is_ to teach us not to be cruel, and also quoting Rambam on the topic.

    Maybe, Maharal means that the _main_ source is gezerah arguing with those who insist on _only_ rational explanations. It is an interesting discussion and we can contiue, but at minimum we can see that either position has support in mesorah, maybe with sufficient guardrails.

    #2543997
    nevuah
    Participant

    Coffee addict. First you have to have that relationship in order to have that level of trust.
    And where does one get that relationship, by being authentic and true to self with the rules.
    It has to balance each other.
    The second the rules eat away at the self and become tyranny it will automatically come between the relationship you have with your creator. The two needs to be balanced. That’s why it’s imporant to differentiate truth from tyranny. Also understanding rules doesn’t contradict doing them. You can do them and then understand them.
    Not sure why you would make up something like that just because someone has understanding. Rude much

    #2543998
    nevuah
    Participant

    It’s not rational. Alot of the reasoning is spiritual. That’s not always “rational” if you want to put a pedestal on shutting down your thinking and fallowing blindly cuz that makes you more pios. Your only lying to yourself. And who knows when you are lying to yourself and hiding from yourself. God. So you can’t really trick the Devine. If you have questions you should ask. Them. If you have understanding. That’s great. You want to demonize understanding things lol.
    Some people use the computer and don’t ask how it works cuz they don’t care. Some people care cuz it’s fascinating.
    It makes life more interesting.
    Does the computer stop working cus you understand how it works? Nope. Stop demonizing or adding rules to reality that don’t need to be there. Like demonizing understanding things. Your stretching meaning and rules to become tyrannical. And that is stupid. Dumb unhealthy and retarded. Be human. Your allowed to be normal human being.

    #2544038
    HaLeiVi
    Participant

    AAQ, I think you misunderstood my message there. The point is that giving a medical reason as the purpose of a Mitzvah, besides for the Maharal’s complaint that you are turning the Torah into a nature book (similar to מרפא בדברי תורה), but the reason will become out of date.

    #2544039
    HaLeiVi
    Participant

    AAQ, the Maharal’s approach is that while the Ramban’s approach is bearable, but it still considers the Torah as a response to aspects of Olam Hazzeh. He then agrees backhandedly, by saying that since the Torah considers these animals unclean, for that same reason it will likely have a negative effect. But the Torah is not mandating a איסור לאו im reaction to a negative effect.

    The idea that it is Gezeiros does not mean that Hashem does not have a reason for it. It means that the reasoning is not a response to earthly issues, but it is a heavenly logic and order. This is evident from all if those chapters in Tiferes Yisroel.

    But, you may add reasons and justifications to Mitzvos as long as you don’t consider it the sole reason. This applies even to שילוח הקן, as you can see in the תוספות יום טוב on the Mishnah in Brachos.

    #2544259
    ??coffee addict
    Participant

    “Coffee addict. First you have to have that relationship in order to have that level of trust.
    And where does one get that relationship, by being authentic and true to self with the rules.
    It has to balance each other.
    The second the rules eat away at the self and become tyranny it will automatically come between the relationship you have with your creator. The two needs to be balanced. That’s why it’s imporant to differentiate truth from tyranny. Also understanding rules doesn’t contradict doing them. You can do them and then understand them.
    Not sure why you would make up something like that just because someone has understanding. Rude much“

    Not sure where you were going over here (sounds like you contradicted yourself here also)

    first you say “ Coffee addict. First you have to have that relationship in order to have that level of trust.
    And where does one get that relationship, by being authentic and true to self with the rules.
    It has to balance each other.”

    And then you say “Also understanding rules doesn’t contradict doing them. You can do them and then understand them.”

    But hey it’s not the first time you just talk without being clear

    #2544599

    Haleivi, so we seem to agree that it is ok to look for reasons, or maybe a better word, for lessons, in the mitzvos as long as we don’t say these are the only reasons.

    As to difference of opinion, it is Maharal and you guys against Ramban/m and rescue. Pretty solid machlokes. Maybe we can say that Maharal is stricter becomes he lives at the time when people figured out the elliptical planet paths and this cleared up centuries of obscure Ptolemian spheres so scientists became full of themselves thinking mechanics can explain the whole world, so Maharal is pushing back on them.

    #2545090
    qwerty613
    Participant

    To always

    To put Ramban/m in the same sentence with rescue is quite questionable to say the least. Of course, that nut job thinks he’s smarter than both of them put together. We wouldn’t call Rav Moshe a Rishon but you’re according this Kofer that honor.

    #2545085
    qwerty613
    Participant

    To ?? coffee addict

    I would think that you’d follow the advice you gave me and not try and engage him in discussion. Everything he writes is meaningless gibberish and empty platitudes. Moreover, he’s psychologically incapable of acknowledging that he can be wrong, so he ignores all refutations to his position.

    #2545425

    qwerty, I am not equating anyone. I am adding them up.

    If you want it is
    \inf + 2 * o(1) on the left and \inf + o(1) on the right, which is equal, of course. If it is a machlokes with solid names on both sides, no reason to call names but a good reason to look deeper at what drives the differences. One possibility, as I mentioned, that Maharal is sensitive to emerging shitah that everything can be explained mechanically… I think the time for these ideas has passed already, at least among Jewishly educated, so those here who harbor the same concerns could relax a little and get back to Rambam’s attitude of “acknowledging the truth regardless of the source”.

    #2546172
    nevuah
    Participant

    Coffee addict. Not sure how that’s a contradiction….don’t get it.
    And qwerty what did I say that didn’t make sense.
    Do you have understanding of the word “concepts”
    Tell me one thing I said that didn’t make sense
    I think when you say the word gibberish it’s because it hurts you that I do make sense lol

    #2546204
    nevuah
    Participant

    Qwerty none of your refutations (insults included) I agree with..just because you say something doesnt mean someone has to agree

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