Shaving Chest Hair

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  • #592730

    Chosson
    Member

    Are men allowed to shave the hair in their armpits, Chest?

    #704591

    chosson, you know that if your truly seeking an answer this is NOT the place to look for it… correct? ask your posek

    #704592

    benaliyah
    Participant

    I heard there are special heterim for chassanim…lol

    Honestly, go ask a rov this is not the place to ask such a question.

    #704593

    bein_hasdorim
    Participant

    Chosson; besides for it being a shtickle metro, (I’m being careful here)

    could be included included in the issur of “V’loy Yilbash Gever Simlas Isho”… look in rashi in the parsha (ki Teitzei) that states thr reason sheloy yelech,etc..

    see Nazir daf Nun Tes Amud Alef, Toisfos etc..

    …..Then ask your local posek.

    #704594

    so right
    Member

    Chosson:

    No.

    #704595

    How about waxing a unibrow? Is that muttar?

    #704596

    cshapiro
    Member

    i thought men view their hair as symbol of their masculinity….why would they wanna shave??? unless ur dating a hairy guy im not sure why ud even ask?!?!

    #704597

    cherrybim
    Participant

    “Are men allowed…?”

    It depends on the reason for doing so.

    #704598

    Sacrilege
    Member

    “could be included included in the issur of “V’loy Yilbash Gever Simlas Isho”

    bein_hasdorim

    What if its become acceptable by men, is it then still considered beged isha?

    Also, what if the wife likes it? Shalom Bayis 😀

    #704599

    apushatayid
    Participant

    Kitzur Shulchan Aruch:

    ?????? ??? – ????????? ??????????? ???????? ??? ????????? ?????? ???????? ??????

    ???? ?

    ???? ???? ?????? ??? ???-???? ????-????? ???? ??????? ???? ???, ????? ?????? ???? ???? ???, ???? ???? ???? ?????. ????? ??? ???? ???? ???-???? ????-????? ??? ??????. ??? ?? ??? ????, ???. ??? ??? ?? ????? ????-???? ?????-????? ?????? ???? ??????, ??? ???????

    #704600

    Sacrilege
    Member

    apy

    Thanks for posting!

    (I didnt understand half of that)

    #704601

    bpt
    Participant

    Bein Hasdorim, you got this one nailed!

    Yes, this is beyond weird. The only instance I could see a man getting their chests shaved is prior to surgery. But for cosmetics?

    Boy, I guess you never can tell, can you…..?

    #704602

    real-brisker
    Member

    sac – What type of heter is shalom bayyis? You cant be oiver on the gtaryag mitzvos for “shalom bayis” Where are you getting this source from?

    #704603

    Sacrilege
    Member

    brisker

    No where. I was phishing.

    #704604

    cherrybim
    Participant

    If a man’s chest hair is mee’es to his wife, and it’s a real problem, a posek will probably matir to shave. The main problem for a man concerning cosmetics is to make himself look younger.

    #704605

    bpt
    Participant

    mee’es to his wife?

    Don’t bother with the heter… convene a bais din and avoid the holiday rush.

    #704606

    Ben Torah
    Participant

    And cutting off your few strands of white hair (only)…?

    #704607

    Ofcourse
    Member

    Has it occured to anyone that once a person shaves anywhere, it requires maintenance, unless they’re willing to live with the stubble, a far less attractive situation, I would think.

    What a question! What a website! I wonder what’s coming next.

    #704608

    apushatayid
    Participant

    Moderators must be at a moderators convention the things that have been making it online lately. The CR is degenerating into a supermarket tabloid. I think its time to rejoin fantasy football league, and use my travel time that way instead of the CR.

    #704609

    real-brisker
    Member

    sac – try better. cherrybin – Anything thats meias somone you can give them a heter to be oiver a lav? Is it pikuach nefesh?

    #704610

    Sacrilege
    Member

    apy

    I love the new YWN!

    #704611

    bpt
    Participant

    I agree with APY.. some of the stuff that’s making the cut lately has been, uh, shall we say, “on the edge”?

    #704612

    WIY
    Member

    BP Totty

    Well this topic is discussed in Halacha,does that make some Halachos “on the edge?”

    #704613

    Sacrilege
    Member

    BPT

    Living on the edge is so much fun, no? 😀

    #704614

    yitayningwut
    Participant

    I really can’t believe the blatant ameratzus going on here. Please do NOT make up halachos if you never learned the sugya at all and never even looked up the Shulchan Aruch.

    The sugya is in mainly based in Nazir 58b-59a.

    It is %100 muttar, l’chol hade’os, to shave chest hair using anything but a razor, and that is the STRINGENT position of the Shulchan Aruch. Many rishonim hold even with a razor, but for all practical purposes, the SA in YD 182:2 says it is muttar without a razor, i.e. the same as shaving the face.

    Regarding armpits, the SA follows the stringent opinion in the rishonim that any kind of shaving is assur, but qualifies that this is only ????? ???? ??????? ???? ??? ????. The Rema says that in a place that men also do it, it is muttar l’chatchila. R’ Akiva Eiger on the spot says that with regard to this we look at the goyim to see what is normal and follow that. Please do not dismiss what I am saying without seeing it inside. I am not sure if in America it is possible to say ??? ??????? ???? ??? ????. Therefore I do not think even the issur on armpit hair is so clear-cut.

    The ikkar is you should ask a rov, but please everyone, stop making snap judgments about halachos you apparently have no clue about.

    #704615

    mybat
    Member

    Why shave?

    Should definetly wax, much smoother and no stubble!!!!

    #704616

    yitayningwut
    Participant

    Ok maybe I was a bit rash and shouldn’t have snapped at everyone like that. I could have made my point in a nicer way, and I sincerely apologize to everyone. But I still stand by my point.

    #704617

    oomis
    Participant

    For reasons of Sholom Bayis or even better hygiene – why not? And if women have a mustache or chin hair, are they committing the aveira of beged ish if they likewise remove that hair?

    #704618

    bpt
    Participant

    Halocho or not, take it from a male… the very question raises suspicions. End of story.

    And Sac,, I gotta admit, you make the CR interesting!

    Still, I can’t seem to reconcile the Sac who “lives on the edge” with the Sac that wrote such a nice thing about her father in another thread.

    And I’m still waiting for your answer to the “heimish-chassidish-modernish-flexidish” question.

    Or are you too complex to be limited to either of these tags?

    #704619

    bpt
    Participant

    And no, Oomis; that sort of grooming is in the 100% clear for a woman. But for a male to consider shaving his chest? Feh.

    #704620

    mw13
    Participant

    I’m pretty sure it’s assur. But as always, all halacha li’maseh shailos should be asked to your LOR, not to anonymous CRers that may or may not have a clue what they’re talking about.

    “For reasons of Sholom Bayis or even better hygiene – why not?”

    If it’s assur, its assur regardless. If it’s muttar, there’s no need for these reasons. I’m not sure what difference these justifications should make (or, for that matter, what hygiene issue there is with chest hair).

    “And if women have a mustache or chin hair, are they committing the aveira of beged ish if they likewise remove that hair?”

    No, its beged isha for a man precisely because women do it. If something is assur because of beged ish/isha to one gender, by definition it’s muttar (as least beged ish(a) wise) to the other.

    #704621

    Most women with facial hair remove it–that’s a completely different issue.

    I have no idea what the halacha is regarding chest hair (I would assume that armpit hair may not be removed since women generally shave their armpits, but halacha isn’t based on my assumptions, so AYLOR), but why on earth would a man want to shave his chest? I can’t imagine any woman wanting her husband to shave his chest hair.

    #704622

    oomis
    Participant

    BPT, would you say “feh” if a girl is turned off at the sight of chest hair, and asked her husband to shave it off? Obviously it is not something she would know about him before they got married. I am just interested in the halachic aspect of this. I am not in favor of men doing this, but if it is not up to me or you, AND if the halacha could be found to be matir in this area, then what business is it of ours if it is done, especially if it would be for purposes of Sholom Bayis, and not for z’nus?

    #704623

    Sacrilege
    Member

    BPT

    “Still, I can’t seem to reconcile the Sac who “lives on the edge” with the Sac that wrote such a nice thing about her father in another thread.”

    Why does it have to be a stira?

    I didnt see that question…

    #704624

    cherrybim
    Participant

    oomis, if a girl is turned off at the sight or feel of chest hair, and asked her husband to shave it off, it may not fall within the criteria of beged isha. Again, I would think under these circumstances, a Rav would matir.

    #704625

    Homeowner
    Member

    BP Totty, there are a variety of skin conditions that can be improved by shaving chest hair. A dermatologist can confirm this.

    Also, swimmers shave their chests to improve speed. (What am I thinking? You’re probably going to asser swimming.) 🙂

    #704626

    How does shaving chest hair improve speed? (And I always though those Olympic swimmers were just naturally hairless.)

    #704627

    oomis
    Participant

    It helps swimmers by cutting down the resistance in the water. Take two male swimmers, same build, height and weight, and identical swimming ability. If one has shaved his chest and the other has not, the one with the shaved hair will have a slight advantage over the other.

    #704628

    anon for this
    Participant

    Mother in Israel, swimmers shave (probably arms and legs too) to reduce drag.

    #704629

    cherrybim
    Participant

    mw13 – “If it’s assur, its assur regardless. If it’s muttar, there’s no need for these reasons.”

    Chazal have made special considerations for women in many areas knowing that women’s biological and emotional realities are different and more sensitive than the male’s.

    #704630

    bpt
    Participant

    OK, I suppose if we had a frum olympic swimmer with sholom bayis problems, we could make a case for shaving.

    But Oomis – for a wife to say she finds her husbands chest repulsive? Boy, have we got a dire need for a Rov to intervene. But not for the shaving heter.

    Sorry, I’m just not on board with this one.

    #704631

    apushatayid
    Participant

    A guy shaving his chest for cosmetic reasons, likely doesn’t have a wife (or want one). Is probably also a member of the local chapter of congregation ahavas achim.

    #704632

    bpt
    Participant

    “congregation ahavas achim”.

    Very funny APY!

    And Homeowner – I should correct myself. In a case of medical necessity, I’m sure a heter would be forthcoming and proper.

    But from the OP, it seemed to imply this was coming at us from a cosmetic view, not medical

    #704633

    cherrybim
    Participant

    Everyone knows the g’mara about the fellow who had an older wife and a younger wife. The older wife would pull out her husband’s dark hair so that he would appear older to the young wife and the younger wife would pull out her husband’s white hair so that he would appear younger to her. And of course, between the two of them he was left with no hair. So BP Totty, not so strange.

    #704634

    bpt
    Participant

    Yes, I do remember that gemorah. But its the wifes who are doing the plucking, not the husband who thinks he’ll look better w/o body hair.

    Besides, who in their right mind wants two wives? Between that story, and the “aishes yifas tohar / shtei nashim /ben sorre ‘umoreh senario, I can’t imagine the upshot to having an additional spouse.

    #704635

    1st timer
    Participant

    I know someone who got a heter to shave/wax his back hair-he was having back pains and the chiropractor recommended it

    #704636

    bpt
    Participant

    Thats different. What tumult is about is a social / cosmetic move.

    #704637

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    I know a fellow who had his chest hair shaved off without asking a shaila.

    Of course, the fact that it was for life-saving surgery might have been a factor.

    The Wolf

    #704638

    oomis
    Participant

    But Oomis – for a wife to say she finds her husbands chest repulsive? Boy, have we got a dire need for a Rov to intervene. But not for the shaving heter. “

    You should not be judgmental BP, about what women find attractive or not. And I would tend to think that no Rov would touch this one with a ten foot pole (and I do not know any woman who would be able to easily discuss this with a rov, anyway).

    Plenty of men would be repulsed if their wives did not shave their legs and underarms. Why should a woman not likewise be allowed to have preferences in how her husband is groomed whether it is facially or otherwise? Thw bottom line is that he should be attractive to her (as is proper). The question is and was, it is ASSUR for him to shave his chest? It’s not for us to criticize any woman who doesn’t like chest hair. This is something a frum woman would not likely know until she is married. We are not talking about something outlandish here. Whether I think a guy should do this or not, if it is within halachic parameters, it is none of my business to say yea or nay.

    #704639

    Husband was told: shave your chest hair

    He thought that was entirely unfair

    It wouldn’t make a difference

    And what was the inference

    Obviously true ahava wasn’t there

    Oh, this isn’t the limericks category? Oops..

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