Shaving on Friday???

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  • #612784
    noitallmr
    Participant

    I seem to remember something about if it’s LAg baomer on motze Shabbos that you can shave on Friday already. Did I make this up or anyone else heard of it??

    #1015593
    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    yeah, i heard that too

    #1015594
    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    And the reason, I was told, is because it would be a bizayon to Shabbos to wait until it is over in order to shave.

    #1015595
    kasher
    Participant

    pretty clear in mishna berurah, hilchos sefira. Why rely on fuzzy memory if one can check it out. Muttar

    #1015596
    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    excellent point (though I myself won’t be shaving)

    #1015597
    Utah
    Member

    There are poskim that say that if you normally shave for shabbos then you can shave on fridays during the omer.

    #1015598
    oomis
    Participant

    I heard absolutely yes in this case.

    #1015599
    Epis
    Participant

    One Is allowed to shave any time on friday as long as it is L’Kavod Shabbos. (As the words of my rebbe)

    #1015600
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    “???? ?? ?? ???? ????? ?????? ?????? ???? ?’ ????? ???”

    Rema O.C. 593:2

    #1015601
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    “One Is allowed to shave any time on friday as long as it is L’Kavod Shabbos. (As the words of my rebbe)”

    The implication from the Rema that I just cited would seem to be that on a regular Friday you cannot shave i.e. there’s a special heter for the friday of lag baomer.

    #1015602
    Sam2
    Participant

    The Rama says that one may get a haircut on Friday if Lag BaOmer is a Sunday. The reason he gives is Kavod Shabbos.

    However, R’ Schachter points out that the Rama’s source (I think it’s a Maharil) is explicit that the reason isn’t Kavod Shabbos. The reason is that the Christians would not let anyone get haircuts on Sundays (Blue Laws such as this still apply in some states in the US, actually) and that we will not force this Minhag on people more than the bare minimum. Thus, in such a year as this, you can get a haircut on Friday. So, R’ Schachter says, nowadays there is no reason to permit haircuts on Sundays (I assume he is unaware that some states still have these laws and it’s possible that if you live in such a state that you could get a haircut on Friday).

    The irony in all of this is that R’ Schachter holds that a normally clean-shaven person may shave every Friday during Sefira L’kavod Shabbos.

    #1015603
    Sam2
    Participant

    PAA: When the Rama says L’histaper, he means a haircut. Everyone had beards back then anyway. So there’s not such a lack of Kavod Shabbos if a beard is a bit unkempt after a month without trimming it.

    However, nowadays when people are clean-shaven, there is certainly a P’gam in Kavod Shabbos if one has a scraggly quasi-beard that just looks awful. Those Poskim who allow shaving every Friday during Sefira don’t think they’re arguing on the Rama. They say the Rama is talking about a different Metzius. Ain Hachi Nami, they hold that people with beards cannot trim them on Fridays L’kavod Shabbos.

    #1015604
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    Sam2:

    The Poskim that I’ve heard about shaving every Friday say that if during the year you shave more often than just Friday then you can shave on Friday during Sefira because the aveilus is nikur the rest of the week.

    #1015605
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    Sam2:

    And is there such a pegam in kavod shabbos if you don’t get a haircut? Does anyone get a haircut every Friday? There are probably many people who go a month without haircutting. Now maybe ain hachi nami if you normally don’t get a haircut every month then you can’t rely on this heter.

    #1015606
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    However, R’ Schachter points out that the Rama’s source (I think it’s a Maharil) is explicit that the reason isn’t Kavod Shabbos. The reason is that the Christians would not let anyone get haircuts on Sundays (Blue Laws such as this still apply in some states in the US, actually) and that we will not force this Minhag on people more than the bare minimum. Thus, in such a year as this, you can get a haircut on Friday. So, R’ Schachter says, nowadays there is no reason to permit haircuts on Sundays (I assume he is unaware that some states still have these laws and it’s possible that if you live in such a state that you could get a haircut on Friday).

    Did Rema have a copy of the Maharil?

    If yes, isn’t it odd that he would get that so wrong?

    Maybe Rema saw that the minhag of haircutting on Friday was being applied even in places where they were not stopping us from getting haircuts on Sunday, and decided himself that the minhag was now for kavod shabbos?

    #1015607
    simcha613
    Participant

    I actually heard someone explain that most people misunderstand the ??”?. He wouldn’t actually approve of our ???? to shave on ??? ??? when ?”? ????? is on Sunday. There is no ??? to shave on ?”? ?????, it’s just that you’re allowed to, but you don’t have to. So why shave on ??? ???? If you’re worried about ?????, don’t shave on Sunday, shave later in the week, no reason to violate ?????.

    When the ??”? said you can shave on ??? ??? when ?”? ????? falls on Sunday, he was going ????? that the ??????? of ????? begin on ??? ???? and go to ?????. In this case, you don’t have the option of shaving later in the week, so there is a ???? to shave on ??? ??? so that you don’t shave right after ???. But most of us who end the ??????? of ????? on ?”? ????? wouldn’t be able to use that ???? because we could avoid the ????? by just shaving later in the week.

    #1015608
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    When the ??”? said you can shave on ??? ??? when ?”? ????? falls on Sunday, he was going ????? that the ??????? of ????? begin on ??? ???? and go to ?????. In this case, you don’t have the option of shaving later in the week, so there is a ???? to shave on ??? ??? so that you don’t shave right after ???. But most of us who end the ??????? of ????? on ?”? ????? wouldn’t be able to use that ???? because we could avoid the ????? by just shaving later in the week.

    And why didn’t the Rema just say you can’t shave on lag b’omer either when it falls on Sunday? What mitzva is there to davka shave on lag b’omer?

    #1015609
    pixelate
    Member

    @popa_bar_abba

    Did Rema have a copy of the Maharil?

    If yes, isn’t it odd that he would get that so wrong?

    When the Rema says you can haircut on Friday for k’vod shabbos, if that were the only reason,then you would be able to haircut every Shabbos during Sefira – L’kvod Shabbos. And if it was because haircutting on Sunday is Bizayon Shabbos, then it should be Assur all year long. So the Rema‘s reasoning of K’vod Shabbos must be like the Maharil, and is coupled with the fact that you were unable to shave on Lag-B’omer Sunday since the Christians forbade it, and therefore you can shave on the Friday before, L’kvod Shabbos not to force a Minhag on people more than the bare minimum, as @sam2 said.

    @popa_bar_abba

    And why didn’t the Rema just say you can’t shave on lag b’omer either when it falls on Sunday? What mitzva is there to davka shave on lag b’omer?

    @simcha613 forgot to mention, that the Rema holds that the Talmidim of Rabi Akiva died from Rosh Chodesh to Shavuos excluding all the days of Rosh Chodesh, Lag Baomer, and 3 days of Hagbala . You add them up they come to 33 days (i probably missed a day or 2) but the idea is that according to everyone, no one died on Lag Baomer, so even if you shaved on Friday you can do it again Sunday. this should answer all ur qs.

    @sam2

    So, R’ Schachter says, nowadays there is no reason to permit haircuts on Sundays.

    I’m sure R’ Shachter was refering to the Mishna B’rura and what we call ‘the first half and second half of Sefira, and not the Rema’s Shita per se, because no one holds of this Rema nowadays.

    (I assume he is unaware that some states still have these laws and it’s possible that if you live in such a state that you could get a haircut on Friday)

    I doubt that would be the case with Sunday closing laws, because you can always shave or take a haircut yourself.

    #1015610
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    I don’t think it does.

    It doesn’t obviously follow you would be able to shave every friday. The reason is that this Friday you are shaving on Sunday, so it is a direct bizui to shabbos is you don’t shave on Friday.

    And again, what is exactly is the big mitzva to davka shave on Sunday, that it is necessary to be mattir shaving on Friday to avoid the bizui to shabbos? (l’shitasi, I answer that people will shave on Sunday bec it isn’t assur, so that’s why there will be bizui, and that is going to be true even for us who can shave on Monday.)

    #1015611
    A nony mouse
    Participant

    Ur always allowed to shave on Friday because it’s special for Shabbos

    #1015612
    Geordie613
    Participant

    See Be’er Hetev, i dont have it in from of me now. He says that the Maharil assered, but the the Mahari Veil is mattir. But if the minhag in your place is to shave, then you should and there is no mokom to be machmir.

    As far as i know, the minhag in London (and everywhere else that i have lived) is to shave for Shabbos erev lag ba’omer.

    #1015613
    Sam2
    Participant

    Pixelate: One slight point. I think that if you hold “second half” of Sefira, you are not mourning for R’ Akiva’s Talmidim. You are mourning the slaughter of Ashkenaz in the Crusades.

    #1015614
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    AC is correct that it’s the Mahari”v, not Mahari”l, who is mattir.

    Ayin Mechaber and BY b’shem Tashbe”tz, and by extension, kavod Shabbos should be sufficient reason in our case as well.

    #1015615
    R.T.
    Participant

    As “Patur Aval Assur” pointed out, that is the source and the note to that Mekor appears from the Mahari”v, not the Mahari”l as “Daas Yochid” pointed out. Of course, this applies to Ashkenazim as Sephardim have to wait until Monday morning (LaD/34 Omer) to have haircuts.

    It appears that the real reason IMHO to permit haircuts on Friday would be that if a person waited until Sunday morning, he would in effect be “slapping Shabbos in the face”, by trimming for a minor holiday and not trimming for (at the very least Chashivus of) Shabbos.

    Also, since the influence of any Yom Tov or Shabbos can be ‘felt’ from the Mincha of the day before (as no Tachanun is said), then in theory, a haircut would be ‘permitted’ on Saturday afternoon, but of course that is a Biblical prohibition to say the least, so the two factors seem to point to the heter of Friday haircuts.

    It seems to me (to be yotzei all the Deos, aside from waiting until the 49th day as the Ariza”l points out), that a person could have a haircut at the last possible moment on Sunday late afteroon, since he would not be “slapping Shabbos in the face” by waiting until the day (Lag Baomer) would come to an end and at the same time it would still be halachically Lag Baomer. Best of course to check with your local orthodox Rav.

    #1015616
    Sam2
    Participant

    DY: I hear. I always get those two confused. Especially because the Mahari Weil quotes the Maharil on just about everything.

    #1015617
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    I think kavod shabbos and (avoiding) bizuy shabbos are two different things. It is kavod for shabbos to be clean shaven. It is a bizayon to shabbos if you shave right after shabbos. In fact all year round people don’t shave/haircut after shabbos.

    #1015618
    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Every given moment is either Shabbos, after Shabbos, or before Shabbos. When does it stop being after last Shabbos and become before the coming Shabbos?

    #1015619
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Also, see Biur HaGr”a, who says it’s based on the Gemara in Moed Katan, 17b.

    #1015620
    R.T.
    Participant

    “Every given moment is either Shabbos, after Shabbos, or before Shabbos. When does it stop being after last Shabbos and become before the coming Shabbos?”

    Possibly Tuesday night?

    #1015621
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    However, R’ Schachter points out that the Rama’s source (I think it’s a Maharil) is explicit that the reason isn’t Kavod Shabbos. The reason is that the Christians would not let anyone get haircuts on Sundays

    The Mahari”v I saw did not say this.

    #1015623
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    The sevara to only be mattir because the non-Jews prohibited Sunday haircuts is found in the Levush.

    #1015624
    pixelate
    Member

    @Aaron_Chaim, @DaasYochid,

    I couldn’t find any mention of the Mahariv in the sources you gave, but the parenthesis next to the Rema (of haircutting Friday if Sunday is Lag) says the source is form the Maharil.

    @Sam2

    I think that if you hold “second half” of Sefira, you are not mourning for R’ Akiva’s Talmidim. You are mourning the slaughter of Ashkenaz in the Crusades.

    R’ Moshe (??”? ?”? ??’ ??”?) says that according to all Shittos, the reason is for Talmidei Rabi Akiva, and that’s why there’s no problem of ?? ??????? when different people keep different days.

    #1015625
    Geordie613
    Participant

    Pixelate, I’m not sure where you’re looking, its very clear in the be’er hetev

    #1015626
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Pixelate, yes, there is what appears to be a typo in some editions of S.A., which is why Sam mixed it up as well. Go check the sources, though.

    #1015627
    pixelate
    Member

    @Aaron Chaim, @DaasYochid

    K thanx. it could be a typo, but I think the poskim say that the parenthesis in the rema is not really the rema. Proffesor Daniel Sperber in minhagei yisrael has a piece on this from the sdei chemed that the parenthesis were added afterwards.

    #1015628
    leftbrooklyn
    Participant

    What about shaving on Thursday night ?

    #1015630
    pixelate
    Member

    @leftbrooklyn

    I’m not able to find a heter for that. maybe your Rav can.

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