February 15, 2020 11:23 pm at 11:23 pm #1831993Are RosterParticipant
You are putting words in my mouth. I have no disdain for ANY Gedolim, chalilah.
I once gave ride to a random individual. He is a close Talmid to one of the members of the Moetzes Gedolei HaTorah of America. His Rebbi asked this Talmid for his opinion, “Do you think if I would have spoken out, demanding that boys start shidduchim young, the boys would have listened to me?” The Talmid was caught off guard by the question, and wasn’t sure how to answer. He meekly responded, in an attempt not to offend or criticize his Rebbi, “Neh, I guess not.”
Even since then this Talmid was mortified by this response. The Talmid told me, “I should have had the courage to tell my Rebbi the truth, that of course the Rebbi has the power AND OBLIGATION to stop the crisis, that he had to demand that boys MUST start shidduchim at a younger age.”
One thing we see from this story is that to infer what Gedolim hold based on the fact that they didn’t speak out isn’t reliable. Here, is one example of a Gadol who, for some reason, assumes that the Bochurim will anyhow ignore him.February 16, 2020 12:51 am at 12:51 am #1832011GadolhadorahParticipant
Ari: I see you are still mindlessly hakn a tshaynik about your imagined “shidduch crisis” that would be solved if kollel yungerleit would start dating at puberty. Do you run a shaddchanus agency on the sideline or really believe the rabbonim here in the U.S. don’t have the interests of their talimidim in mind?February 16, 2020 8:01 am at 8:01 am #1832055lowerourtuition11210Participant
Are Roster: Let’s go to your words “, take it up with this Gedolim who a) were born in Europe, b) have no bias, c) are real Gedolim (not merely occupiers of prestigious positions).
Men getting married when they are 22=25 was around in the days of Reb Moshe Feinstein, Reb Yaakov Kamenetsky, RFeb Henoch Leibowitz, Reb Shmuel Berenbaum all who fit your own word a) were born in Europe, b) have no bias, c) are real Gedolim (not merely occupiers of prestigious positions).February 16, 2020 10:49 am at 10:49 am #1832083Are RosterParticipant
There are issues. Regarding the shidduch crisis, all the Gedolim you mentioned weren’t aware of the crisis (Rav Shmuel was, but at a late stage in his life).
Regarding the halacha side of things, again, perhaps they believed that their boys weren’t yitzrom misgaber aleihem, and, at that time, maybe there was a real fear of insufficient food if you learned full time (Rav Chaim Epstein said, if not for Section 8, the whole kollel system would have had no chance of developing). Or it could be that they were against delay, but felt that they would anyhow be ignored (boys wanted to finish college before thinking about marriage, regardless of what their Rebbi told them). Or it could be that yes, even these great Gedolim like Rav Yaakov etc., as great as they were, had a little bias and that clouded their thinking on the topic (even an Amora, chazal tell us, must be ignored if they had bias, so we have to be OPEN to the possibility that they had bias regarding the halacha of getting married young [regarding the shidduch crisis, it wasn’t relevant then, as I said]). It is well know that the two Gedolim who were on fire about starting young were the Chazon Ish and the Steipler. This isn’t an accident. There is a reason for this. They were free from bias, because they weren’t Roshei Yeshiva. But again, I don’t need to say this controversial idea (not that I was mechadesh it chalilah, the Rosh Kollel Chazon Ish said so very strongly, that due to this bias, the boys are delayed), because all of these Gedolim you mentioned never once expressly hinted to the idea that nowadays that there is a mitzvah d’oraisa which no longer applies (Rav Mosh fought Conservative Judaism which such fever, to accuse him of having conservative deios that the Shulchan Aruch no longer applies is a shocking bizui of this Adom Gadol). Since they didn’t say so, we have no choice but to guesstimate what they believed, or base our decision on the fact that they weren’t moicheh. But we can’t base halacha on that (Bava Basra 130b). If they felt it didn’t apply, they would have said so.
I know of a Rosh Yeshiva (he spoke at the recent siyum hashas) who went to Rav Moshe ahls bochur (I admit that I don’t know the details of how old the boy was) and Rav Moshe told him, “If your yeitzer is misgaber on you, it is assur for you to delay.”
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