November 1, 2011 2:11 pm at 2:11 pm #600286BowwowParticipant
After reading about the project NASI program (which I personally think is deplorable) I tried to think of an alternative. Unfortunately, I didn’t. I do however have some perspective on why there are so many “older” girls who are single. I think that there are many more girls coming home from seminary looking for the “best yeshiva boy” when there are jot enough boys to meet these demands. When will the girls realize that not every boy/man is going to be able to learn full time, be a rebbi, etc.. Will the girl who has parents that can not support get phone calls for boys looking for support? No, why should they. Is it unfair? perhaps. Why can’t a girl broaden her search and look for the sincere boy who is not interested in sitting and learning but wants to none the less build a frum home. Will these new families be less frum than the kollel family?November 1, 2011 9:28 pm at 9:28 pm #828212bptParticipant
“Will these new families be less frum than the kollel family?”
“Will the girl..get phone calls for boys looking for support?”
NO, to both questions. But by going off for the “manadatory year” in EY, she is sending a mixed message. One of the soundest pieces of advice I ever heard was quoted by R’ Pam Zt’l:
“Bochurim ask me if I can introduce them to people who can help them with shidduchim. I tell them, the 1st person you need to meet, is…. yourself”
Once you know what you really want, getting it is much easier. If you send out a confusing message, you get mixed results.
Are there quality boys out there, that are willing to work? Sure, but they are “flying under the radar” (meaning, not making the Top Bocher” list). Or have had a bad run in their HS years.
If you (your parents) are willing to look beyond the surface, you can find true value. I am speaking about boys, but the same holds true for good girls. They are out there, you just need to know what you are looking for and what you are looking at.November 2, 2011 1:10 am at 1:10 am #828213
“Why can’t a girl broaden her search and look for the sincere boy who is not interested in sitting and learning but wants to none the less build a frum home”.
There are many who do!!!
I know many nice girls who are eager to marry working boys, either college educated or not, and in the non-Chassidish world, there are many more girls than guys. The problem is similar even with non-learning guys.
Thats not the solution at all. Its a numbers problem.November 2, 2011 1:32 am at 1:32 am #828214
“Thats not the solution at all. Its a numbers problem.”
The proportion of boys and girls born each year is close to even. (I believe it’e 51% girls and …well you figure out the rest)The problem lies in the fact that a boy will typically look for a girl that is 3 or 4 years his junior. Because of exponential population growth, this causes disparity in the boy to girl proportion.
To illustrate, in Lakewood there were approx 600 girls who graduated 8th grade. There were approx 1600 girls entering elementary schools. So even though there will be the same # of 18 year old girls as there are 18 year old boys, there will be alot more 18 year old girls then 22 year old boys. This reverse pyramid gets worse with each passing year.
Partially for this reason, Rabbi P. Kron and others are pushing boys to date older or same age girls.
Maybe there should be a new takana-No more cradle snatchers.November 2, 2011 2:22 am at 2:22 am #828215showerzingerMember
BSD- Marrying someone 3-4 yrs younger than you is not cradle snatching! Please go look up the definition!
Second of all, who said HASHEM wants to go along with your takana??November 2, 2011 3:00 am at 3:00 am #828216akupermaParticipant
A crisis? Ask the simcha halls if they are giving deep discounts due to lack of demand? Are the mohelim out of work? Are the kindergartens and nurseries closing since babies are rare? If there were a crisis within a few years we would see the schools closing – since a shidduch crisis means fewer marriages means fewer babies.
There are many things to panic over, but this isn’t one of them.November 2, 2011 3:30 am at 3:30 am #828217
shower, who said HASHEM wants to go along with your takana
Who said Gedolim who have given a Bracha to guys who marry their age or older, have the right to suggest guys do this as a way to please the One Above???
Perhaps we ought to start ignoring these Gedolim. I think not!November 2, 2011 3:43 am at 3:43 am #828218Queen BeeMember
Are guys okay with marrying girls older than them? Or is that seen as a big turn-off?November 2, 2011 8:27 am at 8:27 am #828219
“Ask the simcha halls if they are giving deep discounts due to lack of demand?”
Maybe they need to build more Simcha halls.
“Are the kindergartens and nurseries closing since babies are rare?”
In my example, there are 1600 girls entering elemetary school, whereas 8 years ago there were only 600. This means that while the # of kindergartners and subsequently chasonos will be”h increase every year due to population growth,
the disparity(, and hence a shidduch crisis,) will grow accordingly, due to the standard age difference between the boy and girl getting married. It’s simple math, and your “proof” to the contrary is without merit.
“since a shidduch crisis means fewer marriages means fewer babies.”
In what way does a shidduch crisis mean fewer marriages? Or fewer babies? If the # of single older girls are increasing every year, there is a shidduch crisis, regardless of how many marriages or births there are.November 2, 2011 1:51 pm at 1:51 pm #828220miritchkaMember
Bowwow: Coming from a yeshivish environment, i can say that many many girls say they want learners. They wont consider working boys, and they wont consider boys who learn part time. Now that a number of years have passed and there are still single girls from my grade, i’ve noticed a striking change in their quests for the perfect boy. Now if the boy is learning at least part time, they are ok with it. Or if a boy is koveah itim, they are ok with him working full time. Does this mean they ‘lowered their standards’? Or does it mean that they woke up and realized they may not really want to live that lifestyle?
imho, i believe that they only wanted the full time learner out of peer pressure.
This is another of the many many issues with shidduchim nowadays.November 2, 2011 4:38 pm at 4:38 pm #828221
Mir – “i believe that they only wanted the full time learner out of peer pressure.”
Most people in Kollel today whether the men or their wives, are doing it because it’s the style. Long gone are the days from the Alte Heim when only Yechidey Segulah sat and learned all day.November 2, 2011 4:54 pm at 4:54 pm #828222
Queen B, Are guys okay with marrying girls older than them? Or is that seen as a big turn-off?
Realistically, is the divorce rate any higher among couples where guys married same age or older girls? I havent heard anything like that. Are these couples staying together despite being turned off? I dont think so.November 2, 2011 5:11 pm at 5:11 pm #828223AstrixParticipant
There is a crisis but its not a full one..the people that are in the crisis i think eventually get married.The main key is that people must let go of their “(insert your fav non bad word here”)and go out and think and look and chilll and daven tons and be a good jew and dont give up because ive been out with lots of girls..some i really wanted to marry ..then u bump into them a year later and you cry so much because hashem saved u so good.Peace.November 2, 2011 5:11 pm at 5:11 pm #828224emesvyatzivParticipant
The Shidduch crisis would be easily resolved if
#1) (gulp) people would be more appreciative of those that attempt to Redt Shidduchim. Appreciative does not mean with money, it means saying “thank you for trying!”, and not saying “How dare you suggest this to me?”
#2) There is a reverse crisis by the Chasidim, where there are more older boys than girls. Would it be so bad if a girl from a Yeshivishe family marries a Chassidishe boy?
#3) Support for Kollel, should be equally divided by the boys and girls side.
The Nasi project is a pure Shanda. Not a single Rav is willing to say I support it openly, no one knows who runs the organization, and all they are looking for is more money from the girls. If you want to help out older singles offer outside money for those that make Shiduchim for them, don’t do a Toiva for those in need by recommending they lock up more of their money. Their response to criticism in this week’s Hamodia is pathetic, and should make anyone with a half a brain to tell them to come up with a better game plan.November 2, 2011 5:12 pm at 5:12 pm #828225
Queen Bee -“Are guys okay with marrying girls older than them? Or is that seen as a big turn-off?”
Most won’t because it limits the couple’s child-bearing years!November 2, 2011 5:44 pm at 5:44 pm #828226
hEALTH, Most won’t because it limits the couple’s child-bearing years!
Gimme a break. People have kids every two years, I believe thats the average. I think most people are happy with 8 kids. Thats not a small family. Thats doable even if the girl gets married in her mid to upper twenties. If she gets married at 30, it might be tragic (sarcastic), perhaps she’d only have 5 kids.November 2, 2011 5:48 pm at 5:48 pm #828227
BSD -“Maybe there should be a new takana-No more cradle snatchers.”
Such a Takana would be against the Torah. I started a post titled -“Who wants to be a Tzadaikes like Rus?”, where I discuss this at length!November 2, 2011 6:37 pm at 6:37 pm #828228
Health-In a nutshell, how is this against the torah?November 2, 2011 6:39 pm at 6:39 pm #828229
a girl cannot usually marry someone chassidish if she isnt because they wont match up. its like maybe a sefardi should start going out with the ashkenaz girls. you dont find that happening very often.November 2, 2011 6:46 pm at 6:46 pm #828230
Ofcourse -“Thats doable even if the girl gets married in her mid to upper twenties. If she gets married at 30, it might be tragic (sarcastic), perhaps she’d only have 5 kids.”
The poster’s statement mentioned nothing about age. You started arguing with me about girls in their twenties – I was talking about All ages! Some people are happy with 5 -8 kids and some aren’t. A neighbor of mine wants 12 -14 kids -so don’t make generalizations to fit your agenda.
Like I said, since I’m a man and I speak to other men -Most won’t marry older women. There probably are a few reasons why not -I just mentioned one of them!November 2, 2011 6:50 pm at 6:50 pm #828231
BSD -“Health-In a nutshell, how is this against the torah?”
Please go to that topic and after Reading the whole topic, please post any comments/questions over there.November 2, 2011 6:54 pm at 6:54 pm #828232aries2756Participant
BowWow, I agree this new Nasi proposal is deplorable. What exactly makes it new? Those who have the big bucks go to shadchanim. Those who don’t are ignored. Shadchanim work on cases they think will be easier to handle and ignore others. Why do they speak to more clients than they can handle. I have had so many girls tell me, “I was offered an interview and when I got there she didn’t eve give me the time of day. Her phone was ringing off the hook and she kept answering it.” So a shadchan should decide that she can work on 5 clients at once and then turn down others until she has another opening. Then give those five her full attention. Maybe that would allow her to be more successful.
In my neighborhood they started something that I wrote about years ago. The shuls are taking charge. There are representative in every shul that are collecting applications from all the singles in the shul and they are going to meet up with reps from other shuls to try and make shidduchim. The shuls and Rabbonim are finally getting involved. This should make a big difference in the networking process.November 2, 2011 6:59 pm at 6:59 pm #828233enlightenedjewMember
“After reading about the project NASI program (which I personally think is deplorable)”
Deplorable is right. Beg, borrow, CHEAT OR STEAL?????
“…What would the 22-year-old young woman do?
Suppose he said that any 30-year-old-girl who donates 11,000, would be married by Chanuka. What would a 30-year-old, young woman do?
You know and I know that every SINGLE young woman would beg, borrow, cheat or steal but she would give Eliyhu Hanavi the money…November 2, 2011 7:12 pm at 7:12 pm #828234emesvyatzivParticipant
The bottom line is – Why the need for a middleman who is not willing to reveal even who he is?November 2, 2011 7:30 pm at 7:30 pm #828235MiddlePathParticipant
I would absolutely marry a girl older than me. I may even prefer it. But I can’t speak for all guys.November 2, 2011 7:32 pm at 7:32 pm #828236
i would only marry a guy younger if he was a little younger but not someone 3 years older than me!November 2, 2011 7:46 pm at 7:46 pm #828237Queen BeeMember
adorable, I disagree. Three of my friends married Chassidish guys and I was really shocked. One of them was Litvish, but she was pretty open to anyone, so it wasn’t such a shock, but for the others??? Wow. One was really modern, and the other one was really really modern. But that’s okay, whatever makes people happy. And there are many sefardim who marry ashkanazim.
When I said an older girl, I meant 2-3 years his senior. I didn’t mean a 30 year old guy marrying a 40 year old girl. But that’s okay too if that’s what they want. There shouldn’t be set rules in this.November 2, 2011 8:14 pm at 8:14 pm #828238SaysMeMember
ok MP, what are u looking for? 😀November 2, 2011 8:22 pm at 8:22 pm #828239Pashuteh YidMember
I once started a thread here about a goral system. After a girl or guy is 30, or whatever age, or has dated for 10 years without success, they can enter a goral. One pays half the cost of a chasuna to enter, and they draw a name of another entrant. If you get married, they give you your money towards the wedding (afterwards). If you refuse, you lose your money, and cannot enter again.
(Shadchanim would prescreen applicants to make sure they are not criminals, and have good recommendations, etc.) But you get no choice in the matter. Whoever is pulled out of the hat is yours.November 2, 2011 9:03 pm at 9:03 pm #828240
Health, Most won’t marry older women. There probably are a few reasons why not -I just mentioned one of them!
Thats between each individual man and Hashem, but IMHO Hashem would be pleased if they did and encouraged others to do the same.
We down here cant produce more guys to fill the need. We have to do our Hishtadlus and not orchestrate older girls having less opportunity to get married, causing heartache to the families of older girls.November 2, 2011 9:08 pm at 9:08 pm #828241
I think someone tried setting MP up with someone here already. didnt work all that well.November 3, 2011 12:42 am at 12:42 am #828242
Ofcourse -“Thats between each individual man and Hashem, but IMHO Hashem would be pleased if they did and encouraged others to do the same.”
And Hashem would be pleased if a 20 y.o. girl married a 40 -50 y.o. old guy and encouraged others to do the same. It works both ways.November 3, 2011 1:15 am at 1:15 am #828243mustangriderMember
ok – let me start by saying that i didn’t read all the comments here so i apologize if i am repeating anyone.
BSD – (in responce to your first post) while the number thing kind of makes sence, never the less it should have been an age old problem. years ago the age gap was even larger, yet there was no such thing as a shidduch crises. what changed???November 3, 2011 1:30 am at 1:30 am #828244mazal77Participant
When the Shadchanim start concentrating on helping out the older girls, we may have a solution. I have a relative, in her 30’s told point blanc, by shadchanim that they only work with younger girls. Of course, they do, as they have more of chance to make a shidduch that way. She’s called so often, that they’ve told her, don’t call us, we’ll call you, if we can think of anybody. They aren’t even trying. I just don’t like the fact, that NASI organaztion, has set the bar, at what it should cost to help older girls find a shidduch.
Let the matchmakers, concentrate on the older girls, only and let the boys, go out with girls older then themselves.November 3, 2011 1:51 am at 1:51 am #828245
mazal77 -Excuse me -What about you? Luckily there are Shaddchunim who help out or we would all have to be busy day & nite making Shidduchim. If you know s/o whom isn’t being helped, you now have the Chiyuv to help. Call all your friends, relatives, etc.; do what you can to help this woman!November 3, 2011 1:54 am at 1:54 am #828246
Health, And Hashem would be pleased if a 20 y.o. girl married a 40 -50 y.o. old guy and encouraged others to do the same. It works both ways.
What makes you say that???? Ask Rabbonim. Thats “Hugh H—-r”esque. Yuck!November 3, 2011 2:08 am at 2:08 am #828247
mustangrider-“years ago the age gap was even larger, yet there was no such thing as a shidduch crises. what changed???”
This is purely conjecture on your part and it is utterly false. Do you know any European Jews fin di alteh heim? The last of the survivors are fading away, but if you are fortunate enough to know one , why don’t you ask him/her if what you are saying is true?
I did. And I was told that they had the same problem, and worse.
The numbers speak for themselves. You cannot dispute a mathematical equation.November 3, 2011 2:38 am at 2:38 am #828248mustangriderMember
BSD – no, i am not that familair with European Jews fin di alteh heim – i have no idea what that means btw, but i think i get what you meant from your next sentance…
however i do have it from my grandparets that when they were young and when their grandparents were young… when 30 year old men married 15 year old girls they didn’t have this problem. i dont know why that would be though as you say that this problem DID exist in Europe of old.November 3, 2011 3:02 am at 3:02 am #828249
Ofcourse -“What makes you say that???? Ask Rabbonim. Thats “Hugh H—-r”esque. Yuck!”
You obviously didn’t read my post to BSD.
I’ll post it again -“I started a post titled -“Who wants to be a Tzadaikes like Rus?”, where I discuss this at length. Please go to that topic and after Reading the whole topic, please post any comments/questions over there.”
What you say Yuck on – is actually a Chesed!November 3, 2011 3:17 pm at 3:17 pm #828250Pashuteh YidMember
Health, I think the gemara says yalda lo yisa zakein, vzkeina lo yisa yeled because it is marbeh znus.November 3, 2011 3:54 pm at 3:54 pm #828251faylamedMember
Rabbi Krohn’s “new idea” is not new- 30 years ago I found that I could only go out with women older thatn me- and in fact, my wife is older than me. BA ck in Europe, in the 1890’s my grandfather (ztz”L) also married an oldr woman, my grandmother a”h. While my wife is 2 years older than me, my babba was at least 5 years older than my zeide! The problem is MONEY. NASI seeks to extort BIG Money from those girls who are having difficulty finding a shidduch. Teh Rebbe’s convince the Bochrim that they are worth Thousands of Doallars not to take achrayis for the Kesuvos they are giving their wives.
When an acqauintance asked NASI where they would get the money for the program, NASI answered- doesn’ tthe girl work? doesn’t she have money in the bank? My daughter works, she has money in the bank. BUT Its for her and her eventual shidduch to liveo on- not for the Shadcahn to live on! do you realize that a 24year old who buys into
Nasi’S SCOM WOU;LD BE GIVING UP 3-4 MONTHS RENT TO JUST GET A SHIDDUCH?November 3, 2011 5:01 pm at 5:01 pm #828252
“do you realize that a 24year old who buys into Nasi’S SCOM WOU;LD BE GIVING UP 3-4 MONTHS RENT TO JUST GET A SHIDDUCH?”
“JUST” to get a shidduch?
How much “rent” would she be “giving up” to make a chasunah? or buy a chassan shas?November 3, 2011 10:13 pm at 10:13 pm #828253tahiniMember
Thanks Queen Bee for your posts, really appreciated them!
Ashkenazi and Sephardi do indeed marry( I did) My parents were delighted once they met the other side, more than delighted, elated by the welcome and warmth.
There are some fine boys and girls out there who may not be exactly like you, but that could make it more interesting, a frum Jew is part of klal Yisrael, that is all of us. The more introverted one gets, the longer the shopping listNovember 20, 2011 5:10 pm at 5:10 pm #828254
Pashuteh Yid -“Health, I think the gemara says yalda lo yisa zakein, vzkeina lo yisa yeled because it is marbeh znus.”
Yes, they do say that, but it really means only that -a very old person to a child. I was talking about 40 -60 year olds to 20 -30 year olds. I started a post titled -“Who wants to be a Tzadaikes like Rus?”, where I discuss this at length.
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