January 2, 2012 3:45 am at 3:45 am #601451
For a while I thought the shidduch crisis was ridiculous. But the truth is, I have been working on myself so much and doing everything I’ve been told – I daven mincha and pray for my bshert. I go to school and try to do my best. I try to be modest in dress and action. I try to be a good daughter, Jew, friend. . . I even set up people who I think could work all the time, I keep myself looking good . . . but yet the more and more I work on myself I just don’t see the same effort from the men I date. They are either extremely superficial or they are so bad at socializing I can hardly bare on date with them. I don’t know why, but you’d think a society where men go to learn in Yeshiva would be churning out the most academic, spiritual, proper husbands, but I just am not finding them. Unless they’re already taken. What else can I do? I don’t want to give up but it is seeming bleaker and bleaker, and I try so hard to stay positive I really do, but when you try so hard and want something so bad, it can be difficult on the emotions. Am I alone in this?January 2, 2012 8:02 am at 8:02 am #841758
“but when you try so hard and want something so bad, it can be difficult on the emotions”
Don’t try so hard, it will happen regardless.January 2, 2012 11:10 am at 11:10 am #841759tahiniMember
Pinkocean you are most certainly not alone, lots of girls feel the same.
I have daughters and nieces who would come back from dates disillusioned beyond words, not upset by individual boys but rather a sense of being let down by the whole thing. You try your best, daven, work hard and look good and then there is a sense of anti climax as you have an actual date. Don’t give up, some boys are unconfident and inept at socialising but time effort and looking hard will bring you someone you will like and respect. I know! Some boys need a gentle hint as how to open up and talk to girls, hence superficial chatter or awkward silences.
Keep your dignity and hopes up, your tone will change when you meet the “one”!January 2, 2012 12:34 pm at 12:34 pm #841760twistedParticipant
Yeshua and zivug hagun bekaraov Pink O. what is your locale, and age, maybe the CR can help. Some of us may have sons who are not at all superficial, and moderate socializers.January 2, 2012 3:27 pm at 3:27 pm #841762January 2, 2012 4:28 pm at 4:28 pm #841763yid.periodMember
stab in the dark here…. she was born in 88January 2, 2012 5:09 pm at 5:09 pm #841764aidel_maidelParticipant
but I just am not finding them. Unless they’re already taken.
you would be suprised to know that some of your friends/relatives husbands were terrible daters but they do make good husbands. and some of the most charming boys are totally not good husbands. you should look past the physical and see if they have nice midos, and do they have the right aspirations?
good luck!January 2, 2012 5:09 pm at 5:09 pm #841765
I am not following.
You are getting dates, so it’s not as bad as those who are not getting any calls.
Are the fellows your age or older?
The reason I ask this is that my daughter B’H has met someone that is serious now but his age was 5 years older i beleive he was more ready than had she been setup with some of her age.
Perhaps these 21-24yo boys are not really ready for marriage and are sort being forced into it?
I recognize that we also may have just been incredibly lucky but
it sounds also that you are being a little nitpicking.
You should pick one that you like and invest more time than just the one date and saying negative things.
I am not meaning to hurt you in any way I can imagine the Tzaar you are going through is very real, I am just looking at it as the alte kocher I am.January 2, 2012 5:44 pm at 5:44 pm #841766be goodParticipant
I just wanted to add my 2 cents- from a seasoned dater. Unfortunately, I don’t think you are being too picky, or nitpicking and hearing that many happily married men, were once ‘bad daters’ really doesn’t help.
I don’t think your problem is with bad daters, you are probably mature enough to be able to see past that and would recognize a diamond in the rough if it/he came your way.
Rather, yes, unfortunately, the guys are not of the same calibre as the girls and (if I may, on behalf of all those other frustrated girls out there) we just need to carry on trying or/and try and be more flexible about our criteria for who we date.
I know this is counter-intuitive, but after years of dating, I look back and wish I had been more flexible when I was younger.
I don’t want to turn this into a long preaching rant so all I’ll say is, yes I totally commiserate with you. It’s an awful feeling when you feel so disappointed, time after time, and start realizing that the guys you are being suggested just don’t measure up in the most basic of ways (and I mean, really basic).
But don’t try to remedy that by ‘tightening’ your criteria. Rather try and think outside the box if you can so you have a wider pool of guys who may have the good qualities that you are looking for.
In the meantime, go get yourself some ice cream, chocolate or a new pair of shoes to fill up that painful void. It’s not enough, I know but on the short term, it takes the edge of that horrible ache.
Hatslacha- I hope you find the right one soon, and until then, HaShem should bensh you with the strength to deal with this.January 2, 2012 6:40 pm at 6:40 pm #841767
How can one be too nitpicky? This is the biggest decision of one’s life. I’m not looking for Prince Charming. I just want a husband who isn’t disrespectful of women.January 2, 2012 8:38 pm at 8:38 pm #841768oomisParticipant
Pink, I am sure you want more than just someone who is not disrespectful of women. Granted that is important, but there are other things that are equally important. Is he a good person, can he provide for you, is he mature enough to be able to handle the inevitable ups and downs in a relationship? Will he make a good father someday, is he a responsible person? How does he get along with his parents and siblings? Etc. etc.January 2, 2012 8:50 pm at 8:50 pm #841769
thank you “be good”. it is actually comforting just to know i am not crazy and that this is the experience others are finding as well.January 2, 2012 9:39 pm at 9:39 pm #841770
oosmis: of course I would like other traits too, but I have found that the men who have most of what i’m looking for have not been taught to treat women respectfully, and that is really hard for me to get over . . . though society seems to just be that way these days so what is a girl to do?January 2, 2012 9:51 pm at 9:51 pm #841771
I think you should point this out to them. if there is one fellow who is close enough but lacking this trait. I have no problem being told that I am doing something is offensive. We are not perfect beings, try it anyway. Don’t get so down, I have seen recently people who were looking for many years, just got married. Now is your time!January 3, 2012 2:53 am at 2:53 am #841772be goodParticipant
Adams: It is a lot more difficult than you would think to point out something negative to a date. A girl on a date is in quite a difficult position. If she isn’t careful the guy could get very insulted, and the date can become very awkward, even when said very tactfully.
And, in my experience, it’s always easy to come up with suggestions and solutions after the fact. Very often, when one is in the situation as it is happening, it is very difficult to think clearly through the wave of pain and confusion that comes washing over you as it is happening.
And in the back of your mind, you don’t want to do or say anything that will be misconstrued or distorted and then get reported back to the shadchan, or worse, his 5 best friends.
If the relationship progresses, sometimes something can be carefully said, but again, it takes great presence of mind and very careful wording to know how and what to say.
Trust me, easier said than done.
O, and Pink- you are definitely NOT crazy- there are hundreds of girls out there who feel the same way. And yes, they are also getting the same ridiculous reactions from the marrieds around them (you are too picky, you need to look at the inside etc etc). Someone I know said that being single is the least understood Tsa’ar out there… don’t expect them to understand- they aren’t going to. But don’t let them make you feel like it’s somehow you’re fault or that you are doing something wrong. You are not, and there is nothing wrong with you. Trust your gut- G-d put it there for a reason.January 3, 2012 3:32 pm at 3:32 pm #841773
“Aren’t I supposed to try? Do my hishtadlut? We are not given our bsherts, we earn them?”
No, not like parnoseh. For shidduchin, you don’t have to make an hishtadlut; it is a done deal and it will happen regardless.January 3, 2012 4:07 pm at 4:07 pm #841774
Cherrybim: What rabbi told you this? B/c this is not fact as you state it, and you shouldn’t act like you know for certain without proof to back it up. Some rabbis say that we are given a certain bshert based on our merits. Also, prayer can change who we are intended for. Just a couple examples of how we shouldn’t just “do nothing.”January 3, 2012 5:18 pm at 5:18 pm #841775Sam2Participant
Cherrybim: That’s just not true.January 3, 2012 6:26 pm at 6:26 pm #841776
cherrybim: you are right i recently came upon the same thing, but wat it means is tht were as by parnassa everyone stays in and says its all from hashem really ur supposed to go out and do something and dating ur supposed to daven and not try as hard wtvr is ment to happen will. however as we have seen by leah a person thru davening can change there bshart.January 3, 2012 6:58 pm at 6:58 pm #841777
You are both wrong.January 3, 2012 7:07 pm at 7:07 pm #841778
I didn’t say to use my words but I think many fellows, if they are seriously dating would be happy to hear what’s on the girl’s mind, done in a positive way. I didn’t mean to sound cold and arrogant, I have been in her place that is, I didn;’t get married till older.
Ultimately, they are going to have to communicate about these sorts of things when married so what is the harm in starting now?
As far as Shidduch crisis my understanding of it was for girls or guys already older (early 30’s ) girls especially who unfortunately have lesser chances unless something radical is done. Some of the peoople don’t get calls for shidduch anymore, RLTL”, Hashem Yishmor.
The OP indicated that she is getting as many dates as she can handle so it’s a different sort of crisis, hers is a communications gap.
It would be helpful to know what specifically is causing her such anguish what is that they are saying/doing. Even if OP is not into this it’s probably a prevalent feeling and could be helpful to others.January 3, 2012 9:11 pm at 9:11 pm #841779
This thread redefines the crisis. Whereas in the past we have been told that mathematically there are not enough boys for all the girls, so that various programs have been implemented to help the math work itself out, now in this thread the crisis is not that girls have nobody to date, but rather the pool of available males to date are simply not husband material.January 3, 2012 10:15 pm at 10:15 pm #841780
maskim so what do u think we should doJanuary 3, 2012 10:54 pm at 10:54 pm #841781
I think parents should make sure their sons are marriage ready.January 3, 2012 11:06 pm at 11:06 pm #841782
“we have seen by leah a person thru davening can change there bshart.”
Leah was not Eisav’s bashert, however, Dinah may have been.January 4, 2012 12:43 am at 12:43 am #841783
Try again, but this time don’t turn on caps-lock in the middle of your post, or at all.January 4, 2012 10:25 pm at 10:25 pm #841784bptParticipant
We might very well have a crisis, but like all challenges you’ve faced (schools, jobs, freinds, siblings, ect) there are solutions to the problems.
The biggest hurdle we face today is lack of attention span. Unless it arrives by e-mail or IM, few of us can focus on anyone or anything for more than a minute or two. So even if there are good suggestions / candidates out there, no one can connect the dots, because no one is zeroing in on YOU.
What I would suggest, is start going to shul on Shabbos morning. Not just any shul, and not necessarily a “singles shul”; find the kind of shul that has the type of people that you want to be, 5-10-20 years down the line.
Then, get to know the mainstays of the shul. The Rebbetizn, the lady who alway sits in the same spot, week after week, the lady who waits for her husband, so they can walk home together, ect. and allow them to get to know you. Really know you. Chances are, they (or someone the know) will be able to find a suitable match. I say this, becuase instead of casting a wide net, hoping to snare something of value (like going to a chaseneh, where there are 100+ girls, all dressed in black) they will see YOU and you only.
By picking a shul that represents your values, you stand a good chance of finding (or in this case, being found) by what is best for you.
The real key is patience. Anything worth something will not be found in an instant. Learning who you are will take time (figure on 6 weeks) and then after you’ve established your presence, if you’ve not been approached, (which I somehow doubt) ask the people, “can you reccomend someone I could talk to about finding a suitable shidduch?” After a few weeks of visibilty, they will not feel put off by the question.
Also, keep an eye out for someone that appears to be a person you would want to meet. After seeing him for a few weeks in a row (how he davens, what time he gets to shul, who he sits with, ect) you will be able to ask the rebbetizn who he is, and how you can get in touch with the family to get things rolling.
No one knows what you want better than you do. So take the initiative and go get it!
You’ve do so in other areas and have been successful, this is no different. Stop being a passenger, and take control of the wheel yourself.
Hatzlacha!January 4, 2012 11:12 pm at 11:12 pm #841785
Back to the original issue . . . what should us good girls do then? Lower our standards?January 5, 2012 1:00 am at 1:00 am #841786Queen BeeMember
PinkOcean88, I don’t want to be offensive, so if I come off that way, I apologize. If you feel that all the guys you’ve dated are not up to par, is it possible that you’re dating the wrong “type” of guys? If all the guys you’ve gone out with are the way you described in your OP, maybe you should try to date other types of men.
I don’t think a girl should ever lower her standards, but maybe yours is too high? Date the guys you want to date. From your post it sounds as if you’re forced to date these guys. I can be wrong, though. Maybe I misunderstood your post. But please don’t blame the guys (even if, yes, they aren’t as good as girls). You need to go find the guys you want.January 5, 2012 1:55 am at 1:55 am #841787
“Lower our standards?”
Reminds me of an old SNL skit.January 5, 2012 6:24 pm at 6:24 pm #841788
Yes we really need some details of your dates to help. What is it that they do/don’t do that causes you to be so uncomfortable.
I have not heard of this complaint in my circles. we need to know details, otherwise we are all just wasting time.January 5, 2012 7:42 pm at 7:42 pm #841789Raphael KaufmanMember
<of course I would like other traits too, but I have found that the men who have most of what i’m looking for have not been taught to treat women respectfully, and that is really hard for me to get over . . .>
Perhaps the probem is what you are looking for. Start at the other end. Look for guys who treat you and other women respectfully, then start thinking about what else you want in a husband.January 5, 2012 8:27 pm at 8:27 pm #841790oomisParticipant
Maybe a first step would be to recognize that it is OK to date someone OTHER than the precise “perfect shidduch” that your seminary has convinced you to marry, without thinking that this means you are lowering your stqandards. Maybe those standards were unrealistic to begin with. Maybe the boys who meet those criteria are not great husband material. Maybe the idea is to not be closeminded to the possibility that our bashert is different from what we thought we wanted.
I spent most of my dating experience looking for a guy who could sing beautifully (I come from a family of chazzanim and we always sang together on Shabbos and Yom Tov). I also wanted a guy with great middos, and a beautiful neshama, who was making a great parnassah. I got the guy with the great middos and beautiful neshama, but I first spent too many years looking for the other things (that I did not get), and still found that the best guy for me was the tone deaf teacher whom I met when I allowed myself to be open to such a shidduch. And I wouldn’t trade him. Did I lower my standards? No, I raised my chances for happiness.January 5, 2012 8:58 pm at 8:58 pm #841791BTGuyParticipant
I dont know the answer, but it seems you need to meet someone a cut above the rest, so that is going to take a little bit more time. It is possible the shadchen is not so clear is what kind of young man is compatible for you. Maybe clarify with them what you are running into.
Another thing in the shidduch game is that every one is putting out they are so wonderful. All the boys are on record as being tzadikim and the girls as very big in chessed..etc. And that is understandable. Such an important thing has people wanting the best for their children. But we all can find a letter of recommendation whether one is the brightest in their class or a monster who needs to grow up.
Dont give up on finding the correct life partner. It means a lot for generations to come.
I hope you and your beshert find each other very very soon and he is wonderful beyond your imagination!!
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.