Shidduch for ex-Modox bochur

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  • #1292469

    Workingbochur95
    Participant

    This is my story:
    I am a 22 year old bochur from NY. I grew up in a Modern Orthodox home, but I was mekabel a much more Yeshivish hashkafa after four years of sterile gashmius in a co-ed MO high school.
    Does that forfeit my ability to find a shiduch?

    #1292472

    Joseph
    Participant

    Absolutely not. Everyone can do a teshuva shleima and you start your slate as a complete tzaddik. You are entitled to the best shidduch with a true bas talmid chochom.

    #1292478

    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    You do not forfeit your ability to find a shidduch because you came from a MO background and have moved to the right. There may well be a girl with a similar background who would love a husband with the ability to relate to her family and be comfortable relating to yours.

    Personally, I would have been happier with a son-in-law with your background than someone who grew up in an isolated, insular rebbe led community.

    #1292602

    Lightbrite
    Participant

    Joseph, why would someone need to do teshuvah for growing up MO?

    #1292645

    Joseph
    Participant

    LB, it’s a very vague term that can mean anything to anybody. Many effectively non-frum people call themselves that. And the fact the OP stated he attended a sterile gashmius co-ed high school, which itself is assur, lends credibility to that understanding.

    #1293102

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    What is sterile gashmiyus?

    #1293122

    Lightbrite
    Participant

    Is it the sterile gashmiyus that’s assur or the co-ed?

    #1293136

    Joseph
    Participant

    Co-ed high school is assur; sterile/pure gashmiyus is hedonism.

    #1293145

    Lightbrite
    Participant

    Joseph, thanks! So co-ed high school is assur assur? 100% -no machlokes? What about elementary and middle school?

    Rereading the OP, and he did a great job at explaining without going into detail!

    #1293592

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    I’ve heard so many definitions of “MO’ that its not clear the term has any objective meaning, any more so than terms such as “Yeshivish” etc. If you look at some of the registration forms used by shidduch services, some have as many as 8-10 categories in which you place yourself, and that’s only for frum shaddchanus.

    #1293617

    FuturePOTUS
    Participant

    Joseph, I happen to know that’s not correct at all. YHS in Boca Raton was created with permission from Gedolai HaDor, and there are many other examples. Blanket statements like that in Judaism are often wrong, and give people an improper impression of what we are about.

    #1293994

    Joseph
    Participant

    Future, *specifically which* gedolei hador ever permitted co-ed high schools?

    #1294292

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    This one…in smaller communities where they cannot support the substantial costs of maintaining two separate buildings for separate “boys” and “girls” campuses, they have a single school building but have taken great care in consultation with rabbonim to separate instruction and avoid social mingling.

    #1294603

    Joseph
    Participant

    Which rabbonim, specifically?

    #1294683

    bmyer
    Participant

    “YHS in Boca Raton was created with permission from Gedolai HaDor,”

    FP: I checked into it and it seems that YHS might have been “created” with permission but it was al tnai that they would separate within 5-10 years (when they got bigger…). They are bigger, it’s more than 10 years, and they haven’t separated..which means it was never supposed to be open in the first place…

    #1294690

    Lightbrite
    Participant

    Joseph, at this point, isn’t is assur for the poster to say which rabbonim, seeing that you’re calling into question their rulings – and that may expose them to lashon hara?

    #1294719

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    Not worth debating Joseph…there is whole world outside of his narrow NYC/Monsey/Lakewood focus where frum yidden of varying hashkafah have come together to provide torah-based chinuch for their kids. They have done so in consultation with rabbonim they rely upon. They could care less, whether some CR mashgiach ruchani approves of their decisions with respect to what is “assur”.

    #1294722

    Joseph
    Participant

    LB, I’m confident those claiming gedolei rabbonim will be stumped to name any.

    #1294720

    FuturePOTUS
    Participant

    Joseph, I’m trying to understand if you have extreme, overzealous views or are merely trolling.

    bmyer, it could be that’s true, but even from the first ten years the point stands.

    #1294736

    Joseph
    Participant

    LB, as you now see, I was correct.

    #1294906

    kollel_wife
    Participant

    To the OP – you certainly should be able to find a shidduch – sometimes someone with a similar background will have more in common with you, but sometimes a regular yeshivish girl as well. Where are you located? Have you met with shadchonim?

    #1295086

    bmyer
    Participant

    “but even from the first ten years the point stands”
    FP: No it doesn’t the way a tnai works is that if you don’t keep it you were not allowed from the beginning…

    #1295299

    K-cup
    Participant

    Rav ovadiah Yosef says co-ed yeshivah high school is better than public school, for communities that can only support one school. There are number sh’ut seforim that discuss it.

    #1296067

    Joseph, I’m trying to understand if you have extreme, overzealous views or are merely trolling.

    I suggest you give up.

    #1296071

    Rav ovadiah Yosef says co-ed yeshivah high school is better than public school, for communities that can only support one school. There are number sh’ut seforim that discuss it.

    Does he say you’re allowed to open one?

    #1296073

    Or attend one?

    #1296086

    MDG
    Participant

    “Does that forfeit my ability to find a shiduch?”

    Stop worrying about what others say. Hashem is in charge of making zivugim.

    #1296108

    K-cup
    Participant

    He says you can open and attend if needed. Im not sure what financial situation is considered nescesary, just that if the schools are not financially stable enough separately, you can (or should) combine them otherwise people would send to public schools. It sounds like sending out of town to separate schools is clearly a better options, im just saying there no reason to say what this school or community is doing is clearly assur.

    #1296123

    im just saying there no reason to say what this school or community is doing is clearly assur.

    I don’t think they would be justified in following that psak vs. the psak of the gedolim in the US.

    #1296125

    And, as you said, it’s a better option to send out of town.

    #1296274

    K-cup
    Participant

    I believe he says attend, not open. Is there a psak from American gedolim that say it’s always assur to send to coed schools, even in cases where the parents can’t send out of town? I’ve seen a few tshuvos in passing, not an expert. Rav Moshe seems to say co-ed schools should be avoided, but I don’t think he says assur always to attend.

    #1297016

    FuturePOTUS
    Participant

    People on the Coffee Room are very quick to say things are assur. It’s quite amusing. Not everything is so black and white. (Pun intended, V’Hameivin Yavin.)

    #1297094

    K-cup
    Participant

    I think they don’t really understand what assur means

    #1297109

    πŸ‘‘RebYidd23
    Participant

    FuturePotus, that was lashon hara and therefore assur!

    #1297209

    Rav Moshe held that at the age the yetzer hora takes effect, it’s absolutely assur.

    http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=917&pgnum=273

    #1297345

    K-cup
    Participant

    He very clearly says it’s not always assur, there are cases it would be allowed.

    #1297348

    Only for very small children. Certainly not high school. He says that would always be assur, l’kulei alma.

    #1297358

    #1297360

    rafaella1836
    Participant

    You know arguing about this is pretty unhelpful. Tshuvah exists for a reason. I’m sure that this debate does not feel nice to the person who originally posted the topic.

    #1297551

    K-cup
    Participant

    Kol shecain if there are such schools, no? Granted it’s assur to choose a coed school over a separate school. But a coed school over public, or an unlicensed home school? In that particular case, do we say they’re equally assur, so better public school to involve fewer Jews in an aveira, or a coed Yeshiva high school to get at least some Torah. I don’t see where R’ Moshe is addressing that specifically.

    #1297565

    He says it’s assur mi’dina.

    #1297697
    #1297723

    chabadgal
    Participant

    i feel public school is better than co ed, cuz in co ed jewish school youre like ‘its ok, its jewish, nothing wrong can happen’ but in public school you KNOW you are different

    #1298175

    K-cup
    Participant

    He is clearly speaking lchatchila as he answers it’s assur to have mixed classes and stresses you must go to a non coed yeshiva. He does not address when no such option exists, do you mix, go to public school, or not go to school at all.

    #1298179

    He says it’s assur, and two separate schools must be built.

    #1298182

    K-cup
    Participant

    Exactly, you must build other schools.
    While gathering funds and finding rabbaim for two schools, what do you do? That doesn’t happen quickly. If you come up short on money and teachers, what do you do?
    Lchatchila you build, you search for better options. When it’s not there, may you send a frum child or teen to a coed school or in those circumstances, or must you sit the school year out?

    #1298185

    If there’s no kosher butcher, are you allowed to eat treif until someone opens a kosher shop?

    #1298202

    K-cup
    Participant

    No, but the issue involved in coed schools is not literally walking into a classroom with with boys and girls in it. The issue is being in an environment that may store up inappropriate thoughts or lead to inappropriate actions. Similar to going to a mall, or a water park ect.

    #1298208

    K-cup
    Participant

    Also I’m done with this conversation, you can review the tshuva with a real Rav and ask if this issue is comparable to a case of treif meat

    #1298209

    πŸ‘‘RebYidd23
    Participant

    Public school is best because you get public funding.

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