Shidduchim & Weight

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  • #625366

    Alter Zaydah
    Participant

    Words of wisdom from an old farmer (married 60 years).

    Marry a thin girl and ten years later you have a wife twice the weight and six to eight kids. If that is not good economics than what is, especially in todays economy.

    Just imagine my disappointment if I married a nice Zoftig lady and in ten years she was only half the weight. Who’s gonna reimburse me for my loss?

    Now, for truth. My loving tolerant wife tells me were only married 30 years. (it just seems like 60)

    What is more important then to a Kallah-Moid? Overeating or finding her Zivug?

    Face it, there is an extreme shortage of Bochurim who are looking for pleasingly plump girls. (Half of which are obese)

    Hashem gave girls the ability to make themselves attractive and he made men to appreciate this. Somethings we can not correct but this is one area we have some control over. I know many men and women, singles who are waiting around for someone to “appreciate me like I am”. It is a long wait and the bus is leaving, or already left.

    So just keep drinking your diet cokes and see how much it helps.

    With real love and compassion,

    Alter Zaydah (who is hip to what is going on)

    #625367

    shkoyach
    Member

    Havesomeseichel- although I dont totally agree with torahis1, I must say I really don’t think that the complaints of weight in shidduchim are referring to the 6-8-10 which many times are even skinny or not obese girls. The shidduch and weight complaint is really one that heavy girls face, such as girls more than a 10/12 as you say. Though what they do not realize is that while their size is what makes it their stigma, another girls family sitch makes it her stigma, and a girl from out in yehupitz has that in the way, and a girl with a big nose and acne might have that holding things up! ‘Kitzur… its a problem in shidduchim not just the weight.

    as for torahis1,— man your brain is twisted! how can an intelligent psn compare someone who hitched himself on puffing to someone who has a slow metabolism?!? Not every fat girl is a chazur! I know you were trying to be corny but all those dudes who smoke, first of all don’t have shiddduchim half as bad as even skinny girls! all they have to do is claim they’ll stop or not even cuz the girls are so desperate they’ll give in if it means they’ll be able to be married!

    These days guys know how bad a puff is and they are just idiots trying to be cool and get hooked. If (and that is even if) they have to pay a price in shidduchim, nobody has to feel bad for them before they feel bad for all the girls out there with their pekelach that they did NOT usually chose to have with them

    #625368

    shkoyach
    Member

    Don’t get me wrong, some guys are suffering in the parsha, including those whose mothers are so intensely set on getting the more than perfect girl and so they guy can have a list of names but never have gone out for years cuz no girl is good enough. Yes him I feel for. and the guys that may no be the best learner or greatest in demand anmay not have a list or woking and not geting set up with appropriate matches b/c of his “status” yes those guys we can feel for also. Or the guys that just are having a real bummer in shidduchim and are on girl number 6005 yet none was even decent, ok maybe we can feel for them too. your right, girls shouldnt always be the ones that need the sympathy… guys are victims too. but l’maisah- girls tend o be victims a lot lot lot more and so the world is out to help them!

    #625369

    GILA
    Member

    ill tell you what it is we live in society where your weight matters in the non jewish world its vitally important to be skinny ifyour not your like an outcast in our frum community its not like that but to a certain extent if your heavy your looked at differntly i think its absurd the way someone looks doesnt define a person whatsoever however in shiduchim i feel ppl must look their best and being heavy doest qualify and anyways you feel so much better about yourself when you know you look good and your thin.

    #625370

    Yes, a couple needs to be physically attracted to each other in order to get married. (This does go both ways; the onus shouldn’t just be on the girl to make herself attractive no matter if the guy is overweight or unattractive in some other way.) However, it shouldn’t be a top priority. There’s a difference between looking for attraction and having a “shopping list” of physical traits that the potential spouse MUST have. I also know women who refuse to date men who are shorter than they are. I think this is very silly, but I guess that’s a different discussion.

    The important thing to remember is that numbers mean nothing. Personally, I’m a size 12- BUT I”m also 5’8. A girl who is average height, say 5’4, would be overweight if she were a size 12, but for me it is a relatively healthy weight. (Okay, so I could stand to lose a few pounds, but I think overall I’m doing well.) Obsession with numbers, be them sizes, pounds, or calories, is dangerously unhealthy and leads to eating disorders. The important thing is to be able to look in the mirror and be satisfied with what you see. Sometimes it helps to stand in front of a full-length mirror and find three things that you like about your body. (This may sound silly but I’ve done it before and it really helps.) This is great for self-esteem. But while you’re standing there, you might also want to ask yourself if you’d like to change anything about your body. This doesn’t mean that one has to be the skinniest girl around, but the question is whether or not your body is the healthiest it can possibly be. Sometimes a size 10 girl is healthier than a size 4 girl, again depending on height and body build (do the extra pounds come from fat or muscle?) as well as WHY they are the sizes they are. If a girl binges and purges in order to keep herself at size 0 or whatever the case may be, it’s better to date a size 14 girl who eats well-balanced meals and exercises regularly.

    Also, regarding diets, it’s unwise to give out blanket advice because everyone’s bodies work differently, and everyone has different taste buds. To say that skim milk “tastes horrible” is an opinion statement and is not true of everyone. Certain people are sensitive to certain foods, and so while they may be healthy foods for others, these people will get sick if they eat them. One needs to find a diet that works for him or her (and by “diet” I don’t mean Atkins or South Beach; I am using the simpler meaning of the word.)

    #625371

    tzippi
    Member

    JewishFem, 5’4″ and size 12 can be great! The girl would weight what, 140? Moderately overweight according to some charts but healthy and attractive. Why do we have to label like that?

    And GILA, were you in a rush? Is it that hard not feel good about yourself if you’re not THIN??? Slim, maybe I could hear, without worrying to much about the opiner’s self-image, but thin isn’t even always attractive.

    I have a good friend who has some moderately overweight daughters who are the BEST catches – beautiful features that they make the most of and more important is what’s inside, how competent, talented, charming etc. they are. These girls have every right to feel really good about themselves and what they have to offer the world, and sorry for those who don’t appreciate them.

    I’ve raised a bunch of girls myself so I’ve worked very hard not to obsess about my weight (considerably more than when I married but then again, I have considerably more kids 😉 but I do care for my health, eat healthily and exercise. And they know that numbers on a scale are meaningless to their father.

    #625372

    GILA
    Member

    my mother is so weight obbssesive to her if your fat your like unwanted by all i think thats the wrong way one should look at it

    #625373

    Jewess
    Member

    tzipi: 5’4″ and size 12 is VERY overweight unless she has a huge build.

    #625374

    My family wouldnt own a scale growing up so we wouldn’t be obssessive over numbers. If we were a little on the heavy side- we would measure success on if your skirt was too tight/big. And I am NOT even on the “slightly fat” or even “maybe slightly fat” side. It is how you feel and what your doctor has to say. We would borrow our neighbors’ scale to do reports in science class and to check up once and a while. But overall, its MATH that means if you are healthy and not someone’s mistaken idea of “Fat”. Check up on BMIs-Body Mass Index- and it will tell you where you stand on the scale. It takes into consideration your height too!

    Smokers are hanging a sign out that they are willing to be killed. A friend told me that they knew someone who stopped smoking close to 20 years before and she still was niftar from the machla in her lungs. It takes one month to get rid of all trace of one cigarette from your lungs. Dont even start! Stop now! Imagine how many smokers smoke in a day and how many years free it would take until there is no more trace of it in their lungs. Smoking is a big thing that I would never compromise on for shidduchim. NEVER.

    #625375

    yoshi
    Member

    On the topic of weight and health. You can’t possibly guess someone’s weight and health based on their clothing size. BMI charts are a general guideline, and does not take into consideration the natural build of a person or their lean muscle mass. I used to be so concerned about the “scale.” Now, it doesn’t mean a thing to me. If you’re eating a well balanced diet, exercising regularly, getting yearly physicals, etc. rip the tag out of that dress, hide your scale in the closet, and be happy! It’s easier to type this then to act on it, but over time as one’s self esteem becomes stronger, so will their self image, and everything else positive that comes along with it.

    #625376

    GILA
    Member

    jewess dont say that youl make ppl who r that size feel bad size 12 is not small but it depends how you carry yourself and hide it

    #625377

    GILA
    Member

    all you ppl out there struggling with your weight let me tell you something being skinny is a good thing it doesnt make you happy you may think if i was skinny i would be the happiest person its not so ppl dont care if your fat or skinny its all bout wat you think and how you feel but i agree its very imp. for ones health forget about weight to be in shape i do excersise not for being in shape and being healthy its a great feeling to work out well you guys should try it

    #625378

    Jewess
    Member

    GILA: I don’t mean to make anybody feel bad and I’m sorry if I did, but that is not a healthy size for a woman of that height. True, some people carry larger sizes better than others but for health reasons, I think women should try to maintain a healthier weight. Telling them it’s okay to be that size is helping them be in denial.

    #625379

    GILA
    Member

    thats true but to everyone their weight means to them differently to one person they dont mind being heavy and to another it could bother them immensly

    #625380

    What is the point to your responses? Are you having fun writing nonsense to everyone’s posts???? i have almost given up reading your posts- i just cant understand them!!!!!!

    #625383

    GILA
    Member

    havesomeseichel thank so much for wat you wrote to me i just love wen ppl appreciate what i have to say

    #625384

    yoshi
    Member

    If anyone needs an outline on what is considered overweight, underweight, and healthy weight, check out the BMI calculator on the CDC website here:

    http://www.cdc.gov/nccdphp/dnpa/healthyweight/assessing/bmi/adult_bmi/english_bmi_calculator/bmi_calculator.htm

    p.s. This is just a general guideline, and may not be applicable to some people, i.e. athletes.

    #625385

    eyesopen
    Member

    This story takes place forty five years ago. My uncle was engaged to a beautiful svelte girl. Her figure and her face were flawless. Her business minded brothers were horrified at the vort that she was marrying my uncle who was learning in yeshiva and comes from a large family without money. A week later they took her away on a trip and convinced her to break the engagement and marry a very wealthy friend of theirs. She broke my uncle’s heart when she broke the engagement. In our circles a broken engagement is like a divorce, and my uncle was redt a shidduch with a divorced woman, daughter of a very big talmid chacham. She was not attractive, very overweight and could not be farther in looks from the first shidduch. My grandparents saw her and tried to discourage the shidduch. However, my uncle was intrigued by the fact that she was the daughter of a fine talmid chacham and insisted on seeing her. Much to everyone’s shock he became engaged to her. He explained that he saw her fine character and sterling middos and realized how true sheker hachein vehevel hayofi is….Well I can not tell you of a more blessed marriage than this one. Every one of my cousins (their children) married into a wonderful family. One cousin wrote a sefer already, another is becoming an av beis din, every girl married incredible tamidei chachamin that treat them beautifully….. From this living example in our family we see that emphasis on physical attributes is not a prerequisite for a bayis neeman. A shidduch should not be based on anything other than the person’s middos. I am now in the parsha for my oldest son and I tell the shadchanim that I want to know about the girl’s personality and middos. My son is not overweight and is considered nice looking. He saw one girl that was overweight and was extremely impressed with her good middos and fine character. We’ll see what happens…..

    Realize that we are programming our children to look for certain physical attributes, and that what parents say have a lot of influence. PS My brother in-law married a very overweight girl and they have nine children, bli ayin hora, and she became very very thin through exercise (running after all of them!). Many of my friends started out thin and today after pregnancy and nursing became overweight. We all have to be sure we do not overdo eating and cause disease, but the crazy emphasis on being stick thin has really gotten out of hand. One of my friends has a daughter that was hospitalized for anorexia and bulimia! Enough already. (My father who is a survivor of the concentration camps thinks this is so absurd. He says that in Poland, a girl could only find a shidduch if she was a bit zaftig-there was a better chance to carry a baby to full term.) In conclusion, our main requisite for a shidduch is yorei shomayim and fine middos, and I hope that this post does not offend previous posters-my intention is to show a different way of approaching the shidduch parsha based on a history of experience.

    #625386

    shindy
    Member

    There was a very interesting article in the Bina Magazine this week, about this girl who wasn’t thin and she wasn’t getting shidduchim so she started to diet and became a size 2 and then she got engaged and married but she was so obsessed with the dieting that she was almost anorexic and she wasn’t getting pregnant and the doc told her to gain weight. I think it was a wake up call to the mothers of the boys who want a thin girl for their sons.

    #625387

    Joseph
    Participant

    Yasher Koach eyesopen, for sharing that!

    #625388

    mariner
    Member

    eyesopen, once again you put the blame on looking for thin and pretty on the boys. this argument is beyond flawed. your uncle, and son for that matter, clearly do not find heavy girls unattractive. if a boy does, and most do, that is not the fault of boys at all. you can say society caused this from today till tomorrow. it technically makes absolutely no difference. attractiveness is actually biological. the human brain releases different chemicals for different things all the time. it will either release pheromones or it wont, end of story. yes, chassidim just get married to each other without any sort of “attraction”, but i doubt that if one found the other “unattractive” they would still get married. not being attracted to one another and being its negative – unattractive – are very different things.

    stop blaming boys!!! girls have more stupidity they need before going out, and none of which is based on actual science!

    #625389

    132
    Participant

    unbelievable how shallow people are. You marry a girl that’s a size 2 ( and by the way a size 6 is also considered skinny, whoever says no is creating eating disorders)and after five years she has 3 kids and is a size 10 is her husband not attracted to her anymore? that’s absolutely sick.

    #625390

    eyesopen
    Member

    mariner you misread what I wrote, I do not blame anyone. I suggest that we do not put “weight” as a serious factor in considering a shidduch because it changes. I also believe that one should not marry money because of the same reason, a person can lose their wealth easily. The only thing that stays and rarely changes is middos. An angry bitter person doesn’t suddenly become sweet and easygoing, and a miser does not suddenly become generous because of marriage. However a person can definitely lose or gain weight, which is why I added the part about my sister in law and my friends. Weight will definitely change during a pregnancy and nursing-does this mean that a husband starts loathing his wife at this time as decried by 132? Chas veshalom! Amazing girls are considered the wrong size-by (ver vais?) and are not being redt. They are not given a chance to let their personality impress because they happen to be the wrong “in” size. From the first post on this thread I understood that there are those not willing to redt the shidduch altogether because there is the possibility that they will offend the other party because of body weight, dress size, BMI, etc..I feel this should be reconsidered by those who redt these shidduchim and by those who reject a beautiful bas Yisroel based on her dress size or a boy based on his suit size. I am a mother to both boys and girls, BH, and I am speaking from a parent’s point of view which may differ from those who are younger and unmarried. My contemporaries have witnessed too many picture perfect young people marry and divorce ( many within shana rishona). Therefore, most of my friends prioritize good middos and yiras shaomayim as the number one factor in a shidduch. We allow the meeting to happen and the couple are either attracted to each other or not. But we don’t outright reject someone for their weight if their middos are excellent. I guess you could say that sterling middos carry more weight in our circles:}

    #625391

    yoshi
    Member

    Let me tell you a little something about clothing size.

    It has a lot to do with your height and build (also hips).

    I know a girl who is 5’8, she is gorgeous in excellent shape, and slim. She is a size 10.

    To those of you bashing size 0, maybe you’re tall &/or broadly build, so you have no clue as to what you are talking about. It’s insulting to say that they have an “eating disorder” or are “obsessed with dieting.” I’m a very healthy individual. I consume over 2000 (healthy) calories a day, exercise regularly, get yearly physicals, dental cleanings twice a year, etc.

    Sizes 0, 6, 10, or 16, are just numbers. Stop using them as your guidelines for who is skinny, fat, healthy, or unhealthy. Observing an individual from the outside does not say everything about their personal health.

    Just one more quick note.

    Beauty is RELATIVE!

    Someone you find repulsive, may look pretty to others.

    Someone you find beautiful, may look ugly to others.

    You can’t fault a person for wanting to be attracted to their significant other.

    #625392

    GILA
    Member

    I agree with every word eyesopen is saying for those of you who r going againts it read it again youl see how much sense it makes

    #625393

    bored@work
    Participant

    I Agree with Yoshi, because the shidduch scene out there is putting down heavy girl, why should everyone here now put down skinny girls. In shidduchim the same way a girl can say no to a boy because he is too short, a boy has a right to a girl that is heavier than him, there are some rules in life that people will just accept even though it may not be nice. but I also dont feel everyone knocking skinny girls is right either. Some people are natrually skinny, others are not. If a boy is older maybe he can drop asking for a size 2, but if a young boy is just starting, same as a girl just starting, she has a right to ask for taller boy, as he does for a skinny girl.

    #625394

    smartcookie
    Member

    EYESOPEN-that was a wonderful post- couldnt be more true.

    And to those of you who claim that men that are unattracted to heavier girls- you are not looking to get married to build a home, you are looking for other things in marriage- for that relation with the most beautiful girl.

    Jewish marriage is about loving each others for what you are. If you have a true Ayshis Chayil as a wife, you love her no matter what.

    Please- Im not talking about some women who DONT CARE about their looks. Some are unfortunately really messy, and shluchy as we call it.But, the average wife, who looks put together and neat, should be perfectly ok for us Yidden.

    #625395

    charliehall
    Participant

    Believing that “thin” is necessary for attraction is acting like the goyim.

    #625396

    charliehall, are you suggesting that a boy should marry a girl that he finds unattractive because to not do so would be acting like the goyim?!?!?!?

    Be realistic, many boys DO find heavier girls unattractive(regardless of whether it is right or wrong, at this point it is a FACT), so…you can either tell them they are acting like the goyim, which will NOT solve the problem, or you can suggest that the girls try to lose some weight which may solve the problem.

    #625397

    “…or you can suggest that the girls try to lose some weight which may solve the problem.”

    This will most certainly NOT solve the problem. If a man is not attracted to (I won’t go so far as to say repulsed by) an overweight woman, he doesn’t have to go out with her, and she can find a man who does find her attractive. But to say that at this point she should lose weight is not fair. Men have different tastes in women; some actually find heavier women more attractive, just as some prefer blonde hair and some prefer red hair. Should a woman dye her hair to become more attractive to certain men, only to then become less attractive to others? So it is with weight.

    Furthermore, a woman who is told that a man is only interested in her if she is thin will naturally lose some self-confidence. There are so many single women out there who are only getting older, and I’m sure many of them, even if they present a self-assured manner, have thoughts late at night such as “What’s wrong with me? Why aren’t I married already?” Suggesting that they have to lose weight or change in any other way only confirms this doubt that maybe something is “wrong” with them and they cannot find a shidduch just the way they are.

    #625398

    GILA
    Member

    when somone is heavy they dont feel so good about themselves they have a lower self esteem usually they try to cover their body up as much as possible and always hate the way they look this does not go for everyone at all ppl dont mind being heavy i would never not go out with a guy bec. he is more on the heavy side it doesnt make the person but back to wat i was saying being fat is unhealthy im talking about ppl who r really obese not girls who r size 10 thats not wat i call fat its imp. to be healthy and feel good about ones body

    #625399

    lesschumras
    Participant

    to jewishfeminist02

    “What’s wrong with me? Why aren’t I married already?” From my wife’s experience in trying to set up shidduchim, her greatest frustration comes from the refusal of young women to even go out on even one date because the boy doesn’t exactly match a list of

    unrealistic criteria. As they age and MATURE, their requirements become more realistic but by then the pool of potential mates has narrowed appreciably.

    #625400

    GILA
    Member

    thats so true thats part of the reason there r so many singles still out there they have all their excpectations in a guy or vice versa

    #625401

    smartcookie
    Member

    HASHEM YISHMOR- since when do we only marry boys/girls that are attracting? If a girl has great Middos, is a balabuste, a Yiras Shomayim, and of course looks neat and put together- that’s enough. No need to get attracted before marriage. If she’s a good girl, any boy will get attracted to her for what she IS, not for what she LOOKS.

    Today’s Shidduchim are only about looks. Much more important than Middos.

    Personally- I find many real pretty girls very sour and with bad Middos. Of course there are many wonderful, pretty woman out there, but so many of them are pretty on the outside and not too pretty inside at all….

    #625402

    charliehall
    Participant

    “are you suggesting that a boy should marry a girl that he finds unattractive because to not do so would be acting like the goyim”

    No, I’m saying that it is the goyim who put physical appearance about everything else. We are supposed to value other things!

    #625405

    yoshi
    Member

    Everyone was made differently. No two people are the same. All of God’s Creations are beautiful. Calling someone unattractive/attractive, is just their perspective of the definition of beauty. Girls with a little more meat are very attractive to many men, just as much as girls with a little less.

    What is on the inside is extremely important, but there is nothing wrong with wanting to date/marry someone you are attracted to. It is an unrealistic demand of most single men to date a girl who they don’t find attractive, and only to look for what’s inside. Who a person is inside is very important, but that does not mean you should disregard her physical attributes.

    Saying that a person should totally ignore a woman’s outer self, is insulting to some Great Tzaddikim from the Torah. Tzaddikim who recognized the outer beauty of a woman (of whom they personally defined as beauty).

    #625406

    lammed hey
    Member

    charliehall:

    There are very big problems that can happen (in halachic terms, let alone social) when someone marries someone else to whom they are not attracted.

    Perhaps blame the boys for being attacted to slim ladies, but do not ask them to marry someone with whom they will not be attracted to. It will only cause problems in the future.

    #625408

    So if a woman “lets herself go”, so to speak, after getting married or when the demands of a household of children take their toll on her body, is this grounds for her husband to divorce her?

    #625410

    mariner
    Member

    smartcookie, you are delusional, quite frankly, if you think that a man can marry a woman he finds unattractive. either that, or you are not married yourself, so have no frame of reference from which to guide you! you claim to know many girls who are pretty on the outside and not on the inside, but technically you are judging just the same. who is to say that the way someone rubs you the wrong way, rubs everyone the wrong way. i know many people who i cannot stand to have many friends. i also have friends who married girls from size 12 up to size, well, lets just say really really big. v i also have friends, who fit to the average, which want skinny or near skinny girls. call it the times, call it stupidity or call it naivete. i call it reality. when it was mentioned that girls should lose weight, it meant if they have a problem with the way most guys feel about the issue, the onus is on them to change, or stay the same and get the status qou. mens habits, and attractions wont change because jewishfeminist02 feels they should! as the saying goes, a fool is someone who tries something multiple times, doing the same thing, while expecting different results. if you are heavy, either boy or girl, and you are not getting reht, try going on a diet. don’t sit there and complain how cruel the world is. what is funny, when you look around at most of the older girls you know that are not married, wiehgt is usually not the issue. there are plenty of skinny girls, of not more so, that are not married. maybe it is because heavier girls tend to settle earlier, and may not be as pickier in the beginning. i have no idea, but weight is usually not the factor, or not the only factor.

    #625411

    beacon
    Participant

    Smartcookie writes:

    “HASHEM YISHMOR- since when do we only marry boys/girls that are attracting? If a girl has great Middos, is a balabuste, a Yiras Shomayim, and of course looks neat and put together- that’s enough. No need to get attracted before marriage. If she’s a good girl, any boy will get attracted to her for what she IS, not for what she LOOKS.”

    No offence but are you living in a cave? Maybe this might make sense theoretically, but in REALITY? Take a poll at a local yeshiva and tell me what they say about this.

    #625412

    I’m not saying that I feel men’s attractions should change; rather, I don’t think that we should blame heavy girls for being unmarried. Thinking about some of the frum families I know, there are all four types represented in terms of weight: in the majority of the families I know, both husband and wife are average weight or slim. I also know a few families where both husband and wife are overweight, and two or three each where the wife is overweight and the husband is slim, or the wife is slim and the husband is overweight. In the second to last example, do I think that the husband finds his wife unattractive? No, of course not! If that were the case, how could they possibly live together and build a family? Granted, the majority of men perhaps prefer slim women, but so too the majority of women prefer slim men, and I don’t understand why we are only approaching this discussion from one angle.

    I am thinking of one couple in particular where the husband is overweight and married to an average weight, pretty woman. He is my brother’s Rebbe, so I have been to their house for Shabbos and know them well. He happened to marry relatively later than most men do and must have dated dozens of women. “I waited and waited for my wife, and thank God she came!” he once said to me with a chuckle. Would you define him as insane? I certainly wouldn’t. It’s possible that all those women who came before his wife rejected the shidduch because of his weight, but she didn’t, and that’s all that matters. When a person looks to get married, he or she is not looking to marry the whole world- it only takes one! So it may be frustrating to have to wait longer for the right person to come along, but it will happen b’ezrat hashem for all the single men and women out there who are overweight. It may be a good idea for them to try to slim down a little for health reasons (and I am speaking here of those who are grossly overweight or obese, let’s say size 18 or 20 and up) but they should not do it only for the purposes of getting married.

    Would you suggest that a slim woman who has an ugly face should undergo plastic surgery if she wants to get married?

    #625413

    mariner
    Member

    jewishfeminist02: “Would you suggest that a slim woman who has an ugly face should undergo plastic surgery if she wants to get married?”

    No, but i wouldnt blame the guys for not wanting to date her! that is in essence what you are doing. liberals and progressives, like yourself (sorry never met a conservative who flaunted being a feminist), like to blame others for all your problems instead of picking yourself up by the bootstraps (as the great Ronald W. Reagan would say) and putting the blame solely where it lies, with yourselves, and making yourself better. if a person is heavy, unsightly, has skin damage, etc, they should try to fix it. no one said it is easy, but tough! or you can leave it, but know where you stand socially, that is all. DO NOT BLAME GUYS! it is not their fault, not even 1%!

    #625414

    noitallmr
    Participant

    Totally maskim to you mariner. Whoever said it’s the guy’s fault that he wouldn’t want an attractive girl is talking rubbish. A boy is fully allowed to want a good-looking girl but has to be realistic though…

    #625415

    yoshi
    Member

    jewishfeminist02- “Would you suggest that a slim woman who has an ugly face should undergo plastic surgery if she wants to get married?”

    mariner- “No, but i wouldnt blame the guys for not wanting to date her!”

    Back in the day there was this boy all the girls used to go gaga for. He was handsome, smart, rich, and had great midot. The girls would always imagine the type of woman this man would marry. She would be beautiful, skinny, smart, and perfect in every other way. A few years went by, and the word came out, that this boy was engaged to be married. The girls were all so curious as to who he picked to be his bride. They all attended the Vort, to get a look at this girl, only to find out she was not what they had always imagined. She was not so pretty, never went to college, overweight, and came from a poor family.

    Things aren’t always what they seem. Boys are going to agree on the beauty of some girls, but disagree on the beauty of other’s.

    In my opinion, the only way a person can truly be ugly, is if they are a mean spirited, selfish, rude, etc.

    I have my views on beauty, my friends and I agree on some and don’t agree on other’s. It’s just how the world works.

    #625416

    smartcookie
    Member

    BEACON- no, I am not living in a cave. I rather know exactly what goes on in the world today. I am just stating a fact of how it SHOULD be, not how we behave in reality. Sadly, we dont follow that frame of mind today. But it really would be the right thing to do!!! I wish!!!

    #625417

    Mariner, I never said that I blame men for not being attracted to overweight women. (Not even 1%!) I did say, however, that I don’t think it’s fair to expect the women to change just because (some) men aren’t attracted to them. There is no reason why women should have to “fix” themselves to fit some subjective ideal of beauty.

    #625418

    arc
    Participant

    Most times its the mothers and not the boys who are picky.

    #625419

    noitallmr
    Participant

    “There is no reason why women should have to “fix” themselves”

    True but then don’t blame guys for not taking them…

    #625420

    medaf vissin
    Member

    first of all im sure if the were just slightly large this would not be a factor and if a girl IS that big then bottom line is that it is a problem.You say that a skinny girl being more attractive is “chukas hagoyim” obviosly you are not beig realistic and you’re just fooling yourself becuase atractiveness is across the board and bottom line is that a skinny girl IS more atractive and if a girl is that big then she shouldnt fool herself and work on herself just as working on ones middos because bottom line its a factor!

    #625422

    mariner
    Member

    jewishfeminist02: “I did say, however, that I don’t think it’s fair to expect the women to change just because (some) men aren’t attracted to them. There is no reason why women should have to “fix” themselves to fit some subjective ideal of beauty.”

    i agree, and they can also realize that since THEY are the ones realizing that people are finding them unattractive (otherwise this complaint would never materialize) then they must live with the consequences.

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