Shidduchim

@BaltimoreMaven,

Your statement is true, but that is in regard to a person building his personal Emunah despite hardships.

That was not (I am assuming) the point of the OP. He was questioning the shidduchim field and its modus operandi in the last few decades, which has spiralled out of control, in my opinion, de to various factors:

1. Slowly gravitating to the romantic shmutz ways of most goyim, where they idolise the body, measuring a potential spouse by their looks, weight, money etc ONLY, not as well their midot, yiras shamayim, tzniyut and mental/emotional stability. Although many still do look for that, at the end of the day they are frum, but the styles and ideas/perceptions from the streets have seeped in too much to the minds of many people in the frum world, which make them “desire” these sometimes empty meaningless “pluses” in a potential spouse.

2. Lack of solid frum hadracha. Whilst many therapists/chattan-kalla teachers etc learning their courses in sub-par immoral places are trying to take the helm in this field, there is a lack of a pushback by the frum world in creating ehrlich frum equivalents who would instill in people the stable, frum, tzniyut, yiras shamayim etc methods.

3. Some kehillot in the frum world lack a clear direction when it comes to these matters, and just rely on what/how things around them operate, which may sometimes be a bad influence.

Therefore, that all translates into the OP’s question.

People are first FBI investigating their dates, as if they would do the same to themselves, as if they are grilling a potential candidate for some top notch security agency, attempting to sift out and scrutinise all the tiniest imperfections (I wonder if they make such a cheshbon nefesh on themselves..), and only then agree to make a date, which is nothing but just a chance to spend time with a then random boy/girl to get to “know” them better. Whilst “investigating” a person is not the same as meeting in person, the kind of scrutinising investigations that some make, you’d think that they are ready for just one or a few dates, as they have already background checked the person in every way or form, but no they have to now start a long process of dates, which is not a Jewish Idea by any means (see Rav Falks’ sefer VeArstich Li Betzedek-Choson and Kallah during their Engagement).
Yes in different kehillot there has been different methods and sometimes amounts of dates, but the current methods have no connection to those, no matter the kehillah, be it the Litvish, Chassidish, Sephardi world.

I remember a friend telling me, after him reading the above mentioned sefer, his parents asking him what he wanted, and he replied that he only wants three things-basic, 1. midot tovot, 2. General tzniyut, and 3. Only a tichel, as he is Sepharadi and that is how his mother, grandparents etc all dress, and would not want to change that if he didn’t have to. He trusted his parents with that and didn’t need to open an investigation file on any said girl. He went back to his learning in Yeshiva, and not being disturbed and mind filled with many different girls faces and comparing them the whole time, went back to his learning in yeshiva, until his parents gave him the call that they found a girl that seems to match what he wanted and he should come home to discuss it, which he did, they explained what they heard and found out, asked him if he needs or wants to “investigate” further, which he didn’t, they arranged a date, and the next day they were engaged.

Yes that would not work for everyone, but people would do much better and much less humiliated, if they would move towards/nearer to such methods, rather than more towrds the street methods, focusing on the physical appealing, financial status, big shot status, cool guy/girl, perfect etc.

No as the OP says, marriage is about compatibility, and compatibility does not mean seeking a person which fits 100% as you understand it, it means davening, and finding the bashert that was promised by Hashem arba’im yom kodem yetziyat havlad, making normal checks if it is feasible bichlal and then going through the works to do it.

Yehi ratzon Hashem that all singles should find their bashert bekarov, without hardship and these senseless, insensitive and belittling methods eroding the shiduch scene.

@rescue

As with practically anything nowadays, when a system dramatically fails it’s not one, two or even a handful of things that go wrong- it’s a systemic failure coming from many different areas.

The shidduch problems are no different.

I was personally asked to stop commenting here regarding the underlying issues but suffice it to say that most of the “problems” that you and other posters have brought up are merely byproducts of deeper underlying issues that need to be addressed before any changes will be noticed.

Without pointing a finger at any person or group I will say that despite the process being an utter failure- it does work for some people. In order for any changes to have a meaningful effect, everyone needs to be onboard. Those that it works for have no incentive to join.

@rescue

I hate being vague but given the circumstances I need to be.

When I wrote that the process works for some people I meant that the various “broken” parts of the process work for some people- I wasn’t referring to the process in general per se. Those that the broken parts of the system work for are either going to be against fixing it or simply not comply.

For example- I personally think that litigation and class action lawsuits have gotten out of hand. It raises the prices of lots of products and services for everyone. But- it works great for lawyers who will fight tooth and nail against any type of legislation.

@ anso

No, we’re definitely not in Germany and I’m definitely not being hushed (except for in the Coffee Room).

I try to always be sensitive and use soft language.

Someone reached out to me personally regarding an opinion I posted here.

(I opined that I didn’t think it was fair for a Shadchan to get a list of guys names from yeshivas and suggest them as a possible shidduch without their permission. The other person felt it was justified since it gave hope to so many girls who otherwise wouldn’t have known that someone was thinking of them.)

I didn’t agree with their opinion but we agreed to disagree. I was also asked to stop posting my opinion here.

Between feeling guilty about not being sensitive to others, the difficulty of having a productive conversation here on a serious topic and at times using stronger language than I’m accustomed to- I decided to take a step back in this topic.

@ rescue

In order to avoid getting into (the potentially controversial) details about what advantages the elites may have in shidduchim- let’s look at an external example.

When I was in college, one of my professors would give difficult exams and as a curve he would add to everyone’s grade the amount of points it took to get the highest mark to 100.

For the final exam there was an idea floating around that everyone should hand in their tests totally blank. Everyone would get a zero, the highest mark would be a zero and he’d add 100 points to everyone’s grade and everyone would get 100.

A number of classmates had high enough averages to get an A as long as they got above a 75 or so. These students had nothing to gain but lots to lose by going along with the plan (I.e. all it takes would have been one failing student to hand in a test and scoring a 50).

What about Tobias and Sara in the book of Tobit?

Frum Jews do not ascribe any authority to that book. It is unimportant enough to us that
I don’t think I had heard of it before today despite being a frum Jew for decades (FFB).

@rescue

Sorry if I posted something so confusing.

The point was to come up with a broken system (I.e. a teacher that makes a grading curve that can have a negative impact when a gifted student is in the class instead of exams that are calibrated fairly amongst all classes).

It’s unfair to blame the student for the broken system. The gifted student did nothing wrong by killing the curve and has all to lose but nothing to gain by going along with the scheme.

Similarly, it’s unfair to blame the elite for not wanting to go along with proposed changes to a seriously broken shidduch system. They have nothing to gain but all to lose.

The shidduch system is extremely complicated and the broken parts are highly controversial. I was trying to think of a simple situation that discretizes a more complex situation.

Again, I apologize if I lost you somewhere along the way.