Shidduchim again

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Viewing 37 posts - 1 through 37 (of 37 total)
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  • #615672
    Health
    Participant

    We had a topic regarding Shidduchim & racism, now I want to discuss Shidduchim & handicapped people. All those posters who are liberal minded, would you consider s/o who is handicapped for marriage?

    #1077160
    TheGoq
    Participant

    No I would not want someone who is handicapped for marriage but a physical handicap sure.

    #1077161
    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    I gave my answer there and the same answer applies here.

    The Wolf

    #1077162
    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    It depends on the disability. I would consider a person who limps, but not someone who is blind, deaf and mute.

    #1077163
    Joseph
    Participant

    Moshe Rabbeinu had a speech impediment. He was still good shidduch material. If you don’t discriminate on race you don’t discriminate on handicap.

    #1077164
    nishtdayngesheft
    Participant

    Wouldn’t you be setting yourself up for heartache if you would marry someone who is “handicapped for marriage”?

    #1077165
    Health
    Participant

    RebYidd23 -“It depends on the disability. I would consider a person who limps, but not someone who is blind, deaf and mute.”

    I’m a male and I don’t think a lot of people prescribe to your post! I limp, but I’m Not blind, deaf, or mute & I can’t find a Shidduch.

    #1077166
    newbee
    Member

    What good is going to come out of this thread?

    #1077168
    nishtdayngesheft
    Participant

    Health,

    The fact is that a limp is not the sole defining characteristic of a handicapped person. They may have a marriage handicap in addtition to the physical handicap that prevents shidduchim from being considered.

    #1077169
    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    I said that about myself, not about others. I don’t know what other people think about this.

    #1077170
    miritchka
    Member

    One of my children is deaf and has cochlear implants. She speaks clearly and has no sign that she is deaf unless you happen to notice the devices. She’s very self confident and doesn’t let her disability get in her way. Many a time people have been surprised when i told them she wore CI’s.

    As someone so eloquently put it: my daughter has a disability but doesn’t live with a disability.

    Would i consider someone with a disability for her or my other children? I would. I cannot deny that having a child with a hearing loss makes me more open minded and accepting of others. Of course it does depend on the disability, but I would not turn someone down immediately based on a disability.

    #1077171
    flatbusher
    Participant

    Frum people with handicaps do get married, so there are big hearted people who look past the disability because they see virtues of the person. There is especially in these days too much stress on physical perfection, at least for the girl. Mothers looking for their sons want someone who is pretty and a size zero, leaving heavier girls and those not so pretty in the class of those with disabilities. Get the mothers out of the process!

    #1077172
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Boys want thin, pretty wives as well.

    Get boys out of the process!

    #1077173
    Joseph
    Participant

    Get shallowness out of the process. Keep the fathers in.

    #1077174
    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Get fathers out too and let random strangers decide.

    #1077175
    Trust 789
    Member

    RebYidd23: +1

    #1077176
    flatbusher
    Participant

    I am not sure I agree that boys want thin pretty girls more than their mothers. In any case, the mothers do the screening and middos arent the top of the list. Thin and pretty, money, yeah, those are the important things

    #1077177
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    I am not sure I agree that boys want thin pretty girls more than their mothers.

    I’m sure.

    #1077178
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Boy, Joseph, you don’t think too highly of women, do you?

    RebYidd23, I vote you in charge of all shidduchim from now on (except for people you know, of course).

    Flatbusher, you should hang out in better circles. In mine, middos and yiras shamayim are most important, although, to be sure, externals aren’t overlooked.

    #1077179
    Joseph
    Participant

    DY: The “get shallowness out of the process” comment wasn’t intended to be directed at women but rather at the discussion of boys whose shidduch focus is thin pretty wives.

    #1077180
    golfer
    Participant

    Flatbusher, I have no idea where you got the notion that mothers of guys want thin beautiful daughters-in-law and guys just don’t care. There is a lot of misinformation floating around about shidduchim but so far I personally have not heard anything less real.

    Let me assure you that the pleasant Middos of my daughter-in-law have brought a smile to my face and my heart on far more occasions than their pleasant appearances (though they are not lacking in that area either). And I know I’m not at all alone in this mindset. The classic picture of the snarling nefarious mother of boys belongs, as far as I can tell, in the fairy tale, sipping poisoned mushroom tea with Cinderella’s wicked stepmother. (I know some wonderful stepmothers.)

    You are completely misinformed. About guys too, by the way, not just about their mothers…

    On a different note, I was very disturbed to read nishtdayng’s reply to Health. Mr nishdayn, perhaps you meant no offense, but I took offense and am worried that most likely Health did as well. To imply that there’s an underlying reason outside of his disability for his lack of success in shidduchim, without knowing him personally, is very wrong.

    And to you Health, I think it’s very sad but true that many (if not most) people are reluctant to look past a disability when looking for a husband or wife. But there are also many guys who won’t consider giving a girl a chance if she’s a little overweight. And girls who are obsessed with height and other nonsense. And I do know people with disabilities, girls who are heavy, guys who are extremely short- who are married. The bottom line is always HKBH, Who can bring about circumstances that, with our limited minds, we just can’t imagine.

    #1077181
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    The “get shallowness out of the process” comment wasn’t intended to be directed at women

    Yeah, but the “keep fathers in” sure seemed to be.

    #1077182
    flatbusher
    Participant

    Golfer: I’m speaking from first-hand experience. Your experience may be different, but I can speak only from what I have observed personally. I have daughters in shidduchim and I can tell you some of the things I have heard. Not everyone is as described but there is enough of it that one can get the sense there is something wrong. I think your wicked stepmother analogy is a little overboard. But I have heard mothers who are “looking for the best deal” for their sons, and “I have resumes with prettier girls.” I am sure there are boys who want the pretty girls, but their mothers are the first line of defense when the resumes come pouring in.

    #1077183
    Joseph
    Participant

    The “keep the fathers in” was merely directed at the comments advocating removing parental involvement. Nothing more.

    #1077184
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    So why didn’t you just say “keep the mothers in”, or keep the parents in”?

    #1077185
    Joseph
    Participant

    Because the father’s involvement in shidduchim was being neglected in the discussion. I just wanted to emphasize it. (Why would “keep the mothers in” be any better than “keep the fathers in”?)

    #1077186
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Sure, because mothers are usually more involved than fathers.

    “Get shallowness out of the process. Keep the fathers in.” clearly indicates that you think the mothers are more shallow than the fathers.

    #1077187
    Joseph
    Participant

    No it doesn’t. It certainly was far from the intent. At most it was poorly worded. Those two sentences were not intended to be a continuation of or related to each other. Just a quick online informal typing.

    #1077188
    Health
    Participant

    Golfer -“On a different note, I was very disturbed to read nishtdayng’s reply to Health. Mr nishdayn, perhaps you meant no offense, but I took offense and am worried that most likely Health did as well. To imply that there’s an underlying reason outside of his disability for his lack of success in shidduchim, without knowing him personally, is very wrong.

    And to you Health, I think it’s very sad but true that many (if not most) people are reluctant to look past a disability when looking for a husband or wife.”

    I believe that you’re both wrong. I had trouble before I got disabled. They look at disability as another Chessorone (problem) amongst others. I know this because I have friends who always get rejected. It’s very common for me & them to get “No” for an answer when it comes to a Shidduch!

    #1077189
    oyyoyyoy
    Participant

    Flatbusher- dont know your case but are you sure the mother wasnt only looking for that because her son said he wanted dat?

    Also, coming from flatbush and involved in shidduchim and im telling u im shocked and grossed out by what your saying. Think you just got an unlucky bad apple or batch. Cud be were dealing with more/less learning type but im under the impression that most sane mothers arent doing this.

    #1077190
    golfer
    Participant

    Health, unlike nishtdayng, you certainly do know yourself, so of course I”ll take your word for it.

    Do you think you know the reason that you and your friends are getting rejections often?

    Something tells me we’re going to have a hard time blaming this on all of your mothers (as the guys’ mothers are apparently to blame for most or all of what goes wrong in shidduchim)…

    There are an awful lot lot of threads here dedicated to the idea that girls are the ones getting all the abuse.

    As a guy, do you have an idea what the problem is?

    And here’s a hypothetical question for everyone else-

    If we do send all the mothers away on vacation, how will things change? Will all the not so thin, not so pretty girls suddenly find themselves with tons of guys chasing after them? Will the crisis end? Will the per capita rate of weddings go up? Will the cost of weddings go down? Will the fathers, now left fielding the calls and taking care of things, have that same familiar feeling they once had the time the mothers left them with five or six rambunctious little ones (three in diapers) for an afternoon?

    #1077191
    golfer
    Participant

    Flatbusher, I’m glad you found the analogy a little overboard as I was hoping nobody suggested I drink the poison mushroom tea myself.

    Just curious, have you ever come across the mother of a girl looking for the best possible shidduch for her daughter?

    #1077192
    Health
    Participant

    golfer -“Do you think you know the reason that you and your friends are getting rejections often?”

    Yes.

    “Something tells me we’re going to have a hard time blaming this on all of your mothers (as the guys’ mothers are apparently to blame for most or all of what goes wrong in shidduchim)…”

    I’m too old for my mother to get involved & so are my friends.

    “As a guy, do you have an idea what the problem is?”

    Too much Loshon Hora & mostly Moztay Shem Rah!

    #1077194
    haker613
    Member

    what happened to Hashem remember Him??

    #1077195
    flatbusher
    Participant

    Golfer: mostly mothers are looking for dates for their daughters with the hope they’re the best for them. I guess you aren’t involved in shidduchim at the moment as you would have known how hard it is to get dates for girls especially when they are over 21.

    #1077196
    Health
    Participant

    haker613 -“what happened to Hashem remember Him??”

    What happened to Hashem’s Torah? So much Loshon Hora & Moztay Shem Rah!

    #1077197
    miritchka
    Member

    I dont think the solution is to get rid of mothers or fathers. Our parents want the best for us and can get carried away with doing research. I think that parents need to be more objective and look at the whole picture instead of nitpicking. What someone’s aunts and uncles do for a living, or where their grandparents came from, should not even be in the discussion of shidduchim.

    All my siblings and myself, we all got married pretty young, and I would like to give a tremendous amount of credit to my parents for being supportive of our decisions, doing research that was nogeiah to the boy directly (age, his plans for future, what he is currently doing, his level of hashkafa, a bit about his personality, what he is looking for, a bit about his immediate family..) and calling a few references. As the shidduch would progress, they would call references again or go through the shadchan to clarify some issues.

    And left the rest up to Hashem!

    As every married/divorced person can tell you, you always learn something new (many new things) about your spouse after you get married that you did not know before.

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