November 27, 2016 2:58 am at 2:58 am #618734
I am overweight and I am repeatedly told that I will have a very hard time in shidduchim. Will a boy really turn down a girl- a really good girl even if she’s overweight?November 27, 2016 4:07 am at 4:07 am #1196114
Some will and some won’t. I wouldn’t worry about it. I know girls who are very overweight who married great guys.
If you are very overweight and you can lose some weight without making yourself crazy about it, it may be a good idea to do so.
If you make sure that you are attractive in other ways, it is much less of an issue. Buying the right clothes (to hide your weight) makes a tremendous difference. There have been times when I gained a lot of weight but people actually thought that I lost weight because of my clothes. It is hard to find clothes that are slimming, but it is worthwhile, since it makes a tremendous difference.
Make sure your hair and face look great, and wear clothes that don’t emphasize your stomach.
I once heard about a beauty contest for overweight people. The contestants had to weigh a certain amount in order to qualify. The winnere of the contest said, “If you think you are beautiful, then others will also think you are beautiful”.
I wholeheartedly agree with that statement.November 27, 2016 4:16 am at 4:16 am #1196115
Don’t worry! Seeing is believing! When the right times comes you’ll find yourself happily married to the right one. Of course there’s the regular Hishtadlus’ one must do in this field, each in their own fields, but at the beginning, middle and end it’s All up to our Great Creator up there. Funny you mentioned it this week, which parsha is all about “The Parsha”. As other Torah greats have mentioned, one discerns the hidden Yad HaShem more in instances of Shiduchim than in anything else – ???? ??????.
and btw in olden times people looked for persons of weight, skinny ones were rejected as not healthy, useful.November 27, 2016 4:17 am at 4:17 am #1196116
Even a fat guy will say No!November 27, 2016 4:28 am at 4:28 am #1196117
People like to tell people that they will have a hard time finding a shidduch for many different reasons. Ideally your match will find you attractive regardless.
I’m a women but IMHO self-acceptance and confidence are more attracting overall. I’m sorry that you’very had such critical feedback. For sure you muat have many wonderful qualities that others only dream of having.November 27, 2016 4:32 am at 4:32 am #1196118
As long as you are not looking to marry Health, you don’t have to worry about his opinion.
btw, the overweight girls I was talking about are married to skinny guys.
editedNovember 27, 2016 4:35 am at 4:35 am #1196120
This actually may be a good way to rule out superficial guys and get a quality one.
Personally, even if I were thin, I wouldn’t want to marry a guy who only wanted a thin girl. It’s a horrible life, and I’ve heard too many horror stories of guys who were upset with their wives because they gained a few pounds after having 10 kids, and they made them crazy about it. Would you really want to be married to someone like that?November 27, 2016 4:43 am at 4:43 am #1196121
What’s that supposed to mean, Health? When will a fat guy get the opportunity to say no anyway? Girls don’t like fat guys.November 27, 2016 4:45 am at 4:45 am #1196122
I also wouldn’t want to marry someone whose attraction to me was so superficial and conditional.November 27, 2016 4:48 am at 4:48 am #1196123
I can’t even remember what else I wrote. I thought that was all I wrote. (or does “edited” refer to my own editing?)November 27, 2016 6:57 am at 6:57 am #1196124
A certain amount of hishtadlus to make yourself look nice is appropriate for those in shidduchim. But, losing weight is hard. Maintaining it off is even harder. There are many good reasons to do it, but it needs to come from you wanting to lose weight for yourself, not for how other people may perceive you.
Keep in mind that lots of people have a hard time in shidduchim, often for reasons beyond their control.November 27, 2016 8:34 am at 8:34 am #1196125
I haven’t logged in for years but this topic is dear to my heart. I am the mother of an overweight daughter in shidduchim and it is awful. For some reason It is considered a major mum and many of the shidduchim redt are “interesting”. We are not picky and all we want is someone who complements her personality. It’s a given that the boy will be heavy. I don’t even bother asking. It does not bother us. But most of the boys she’s dated come across as less intelligent and very bland. I am at my wits end as to where to try to find more suitable Shidduchim. We have shlepped to numerous shadchanim, many of which take money and have rarely heard from them again. Only one date came from a shadchan. So to the op. I hoe your experience is better than ours. I see many heavier girls on Simchaspot so it does happen but our experience has been abysmal to date.November 27, 2016 9:00 am at 9:00 am #1196126
“Believing” – When considering your health it is proper to speak to a doctor and/or dietitian on a proper diet plan to lose weight to be in a healthier state. This of course includes daily exercise.
However, in regards to looks and shidduchim a different hashkafa must be in place. I agree with the others that attitude about oneself is most important. Beyond that you need to focus on three facts.
1) Zivug – “your zivug was predetermined before you were born”. (Use this as an affirmation and don’t explore this concept beyond this. It will only get you confused.)
2) Less Offers – The odds are you will receive less offers, but that is not necessarily a bad thing. After all, think about how the next girl (who’s skinny) feels after each shidduch when she’s told “she just not the one I’m looking for”. Better to have been offered only 3 shiddachs and proposed to by the third then having gone out with over 50 guys and been rejected by more than half of them.
3) Good Guys – I’m sorry to say, but MANY boys today are VERY shallow! They are looking for the wrong things in a girl and this has a bad affect on their married later on in life. Imagine how a woman feels after her “bum of a husband” divorces her because after 4 labors her body isn’t what it used to be and he’s lost interest in her!
If a guy is willing to go out with you regardless of your size, then that means that he most likely is focusing on the RIGHT things to look for in a girl. He’s clearly someone with right hashgafas and most likely a great guy to be around! Another advantage is you won’t need to constantly worry that your husband will lose interest in you if you gain a little weight (unlike many other girls that do worry). He will always find you attractive. Also, all in all, your chances of end up with a strong and happy marriage is much higher than your skinny counterparts. So focus on the positives and ignore the advice of well meaning ignorant people.
BTW – last week I was at a wedding of a Kallah that was heavy set. I now the Chason’s side and they are exceptional people! Lucky girl!
Bottom line – You will get married! Don’t worry!November 27, 2016 9:26 am at 9:26 am #1196127
RebYidd23, I don’t think that what you said is entirely accurate. My daughter (thin and beautiful) was the type you’re talking about and used to tell her brother (my only overweight child) that no girl wants to marry a heavy boy. It turns out that when she met her husband the first time, I thought for sure she would say no because he is FAT. Well, obviously she didn’t say no and they’re now a family with a beautiful baby. He’s fatter than he was before, although he did lose weight for the chassanah. I hope for his health that he does lose weight, but, as said above, the right one at the right time.November 27, 2016 11:11 am at 11:11 am #1196128
Many boys like girls who are not thin, the problem maybe their mother. That being said depending on how overweight you are there maybe health problems. I am assuming that you are not currently dating and the person advising you is just trying to get you to lose weight.November 27, 2016 1:15 pm at 1:15 pm #1196129
When looking for a spouse we were told, don’t look at the girl and how she looks now, look at her mother and see if this is what you want your wife to look like in 30 years…………
Well, this backfired on a young man who was set up with our youngest daughter last year. He confided in the person setting him up that he wasn’t interested because Mrs. CTL was heavier than he wanted his wife to be at that age.
The fool needs to take high school biology, he didn’t understand that our daughter is Chinese (adopted) and carries none of Mrs. CTL’s genes.
Needless too say he would not have found favor in our daughter’s or our eyes.November 27, 2016 1:45 pm at 1:45 pm #1196130
I’m overweight and haven’t found it to be a problem with shidduchim, so I really don’t get what this is about. Maybe I go out with more intellectual, less superficial types of boys.November 27, 2016 1:55 pm at 1:55 pm #1196131
CT, that’s hilarious. May you have hatzlacah finding your daughter’s basshert.November 27, 2016 2:01 pm at 2:01 pm #1196132
Believing, according to the Jewish Press, looks, money and personality are all unimportant when it comes to finding a spouse. Why? Looks fade over time; money comes & goes and personality can be used against the other spouse. The one thing that matters is midos; which carries with the person through life. The problem is that a heavy girl, in today’s society, may prevent a lot of nice gentlemen from seeing and appreciating the girl’s midos. Like some of the other posters have said, you should try to get on some type of diet & exercise program that works for you. Don’t try to become real thin; that wouldn’t be healthy. May you have an easy time finding your bashert.November 27, 2016 2:09 pm at 2:09 pm #1196133
“The fool needs to take high school biology, he didn’t understand that our daughter is Chinese (adopted) and carries none of Mrs. CTL’s genes.”
lol. The truth is though, don’t you think it’s likely that it could be more of a nurture issue than a nature issue? I just don’t think it should be an issue altogether.November 27, 2016 3:46 pm at 3:46 pm #1196134
Nature v. Nuture is always an interesting discussion.
Having 2 adopted children plus a number of birth children, I can say that the adopted children are thin (size 1) and about 5’8″ tall They are ages 20 and 28.
Mrs. CTL and I are heavy and 5’5″.
The adopted and birth children were raised together eating the same foods, so it’s not nurture, it’s genes.
All our children exercise, as do we. Full gym setup in the studio over the garage and our own in ground pool for laps, etc.
Whether or noty it should be an issue is another story.November 27, 2016 3:51 pm at 3:51 pm #1196135
CTL – that is interesting. But it still doesn’t make the guy a fool for thinking that it could be nurture. And it also doesn’t prove that it can’t be nurture in some cases, even if it’s not in this case.
I’m wondering if being Chinese has to do with it. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a fat Asian. The Filipinos in EY are also thin.November 27, 2016 3:53 pm at 3:53 pm #1196136
she and we are in no hurry. We marry later than many in the CR as it is expected that our children complete college and grad school first. She has 3 semesters left in college and then law school (coming into the family firm).
Her next older sister graduated law school last December, took the Bar exam in February, married erev Pesach and she and new SIL work for me. She met her husband in law school, set up by a Jewish professor who noted their absences for Yuntif.
Youngest expects to seriously start looking when she is in law school, but if something interesting pops up sooner she’ll consider it. She did a year of seminary between graduating high school a year early and college. Expects a husband to have either gone to college while in Yeshiva or spent a year or two learning full time before college. She will not consider supporting a husband who learns full time…not our minhag. We are the baal baatim of the world who make the money to support and build the institutions for those who sit and learn full time.November 27, 2016 3:56 pm at 3:56 pm #1196137
So, CTlawyer, you are stating that you were taught that looks matter in a shidduch. I was not taught that, but I practiced it anyway.
I think the fact is that people do not get thinner as they get older. Excess weight creates genuine health issues in addition to cosmetic issues. I believe that overweight and obesity among millennials is substantially higher than it was among baby boomers at the same age.
Let’s not kid ourselves. Weight can become a weighty problem. Face it: the thinner you are when you are 20, the thinner you will be when you are 50.November 27, 2016 4:06 pm at 4:06 pm #1196138
“We are the baal baatim of the world who make the money to support and build the institutions for those who sit and learn full time.”
So.. IYH, when I marry my Ben Torah, how can I get in touch with you?November 27, 2016 4:24 pm at 4:24 pm #1196139
If you read my post it says we were told. It does not say we were taught. I choose my words carefully (part of being a lawyer). In fact it was my grandmother who told my brothers and me this consideration.
I did not use it when choosing Mrs. CTL. Our mothers were friends who set us up. I can look at pictures of Mrs. CTL at 30, 40 50 and 60 and they are easilly confused with pictures of her mother at the same age…and all are pleasing to my eyes.November 27, 2016 4:27 pm at 4:27 pm #1196140
building and supporting institutions is quite different from directly supporting individuals who st and learn.
BTW…I’ve been in Asia many of times, there are fat Asians. The Chinese word for fat is WO. As their economy grows so have their wastelines.
South Koreans, under US auspices for the past 60+ years are substantially heavier than Cambodians, Laotians, Viet Namese, etc.November 27, 2016 4:48 pm at 4:48 pm #1196141
As CTL points out, as China has advanced economically, the Chinese have developed a weight problem, partly because of the popularity of sugary drinks and fast food. There number of diabetics in China is about the same as the total population of Mexico. If you include those with pre-diabetes, there are over half a billion! Apparently Asians can develop diabetes at a lower BMI than Westerners.November 27, 2016 4:48 pm at 4:48 pm #1196142
building and supporting institutions is quite different from directly supporting individuals who st and learn.”
oh, well, too bad. It’s okay, by this point, my zivug probably already has a shteller anyhow, and I’m probably not having 20 kids who need supporting.November 27, 2016 4:55 pm at 4:55 pm #1196143
I heard from Rav Hershel Schachter that there is no mitzvah to marry an “ugly” girl just to say the passuk of Sheker Hachein Vhevel Hayofi with kavanah. The girl has to be pleasing in his eyes even if she may not be pleasing to others.November 27, 2016 5:02 pm at 5:02 pm #1196144
“I heard from Rav Hershel Schachter that there is no mitzvah to marry an “ugly” girl just to say the passuk of Sheker Hachein Vhevel Hayofi with kavanah. The girl has to be pleasing in his eyes even if she may not be pleasing to others.”
But beauty is subjective and it does not go by what Hollywood says. I have heard that there are boys who think that being heavier is more attractive, but they are afraid to admit it. I believe it was a goyish source, but kal v’chomer for Yidden (the first part) since they should be less influenced by Hollywood.
It is not objectively more attractive to be a toothpick.November 27, 2016 5:05 pm at 5:05 pm #1196145
Also, the question is – are you looking for someone attractive or for Miss America? If you just need her to be attractive, most girls can be considered attractive (at least by many boys). The problem is when people start comparing, and they think they need the most gorgeous girl, or they have a very specific idea of what attractive means…November 27, 2016 5:16 pm at 5:16 pm #1196146
Thank you everyone for your honest and helpful feedback! To the mother of the girl whose overweight and only gets “interesting” shidduchim redt: Firstly, I really feel for you! I am not in shidduchim yet, but can imagine that it’s hard. It’s so unfortunate that you’re being redt “interesting” people for her. I don’t know why some of the boys are shallow- as someone else said, but I feel like we all have to get our priorities straight! Yes, a girl needs to look attractive and do everything she can, but at the end of the day, is the girl only her weight?? Why are we being defined by our looks and weight? I think our priorities should be more focused on the girl herself. Does she have good middos- Yiras Shamayim, kind, compassionate, sensitive… Those are the 1st qualities we should all be looking for! Those qualities will determine what kind of wife and mother she will be. Will she be able to communicate with her husband and kids after a long day of school/work? Will she be able to be sensitive to the needs of her husbands and children? Can she build a Torah home? Does the fact that a girl is overweight prove that she can’t be a good wife or mother?? NO!!!! (of course hishtadlus is needed) My point is, fat or skinny will NOT determine what kind of wife and mother the girl will be! Those are all externals. We need to dig and look beyond the surface and see what’s inside her- her middos… To me, that’s the #1 criteria for shidduchim.
Iy”H, we should only hear Simchas!November 27, 2016 5:33 pm at 5:33 pm #1196147
Believing +1! IYH, when you are in shidduchim, you will find the great guy that you deserve – a guy who has his priorities straight and values all the things that you mentioned!November 27, 2016 6:53 pm at 6:53 pm #1196149
LU: You wrote “But beauty is subjective”. That was exactly R’ Schacter’s point (BTW, I heard this from R’ Schachter in 1986). Don’t worry about what other’s say or think. Only your opinion matters.November 27, 2016 8:32 pm at 8:32 pm #1196150
Thank you LU and Amen! Iy”H by everyone!!
Just curious, what did you mean by +1?November 27, 2016 8:57 pm at 8:57 pm #1196151
iacisrmma -ok, sorry. I think I realized as I was posting that was probably your point, but either way, I thought it was kidai to make it clear.
I heard a story (very possibly apocrophyl or whatever the word is) that a talmid of Rav Willig’s went on a date and after the date, he told Rav Willig that he didn’t want to go out again because the girl wasn’t pretty. Rav Willig (supposedly) called him an apikorus since Chazal say that all bnos Yisrael are pretty.
I mentioned this story on another thread w/o the name, since I don’t know if it’s a true story or not. But since you mentioned Rav Shachter, I figured I would mention it, with the qualification that it may not be true.November 27, 2016 9:01 pm at 9:01 pm #1196153
someone told me on the other thread that the story doesn’t make sense because the boy is supposed to meet the girl to see if he likes the way she looks.
But I think that the problem may have been the way the boy phrased it, “she is not pretty” as though it is an objective fact, as opposed to “I don’t like the way she looks”.
Alternately, he may have felt this boy was too picky about looks and needed to learn a lesson.November 28, 2016 12:11 am at 12:11 am #1196154
To CTLAWYER: I read your post, and my interpretation was reasonable. Somewhere in your education, someone should have told to to avoid the passive voice, as it hides the doer of the action. And you could have written, in the active voice, that your grandmother taught (or told) you to find a pretty wife. My grandmother taught me the same thing.
In my experience with lawyers (of which I am one), I find that whenever I hear the passive voice, a lawyer or his/her client is weasling and obfuscating, which is part of us lawyers’ bag of tricks.November 28, 2016 12:40 am at 12:40 am #1196155
I do not know the particulars of the situation but have you ever considered having a friend call your daughters references for a “test” call? While unpleasant, it is better than the alternative…
Also have you tried reaching out to shadchanim from out of town/overseas?November 28, 2016 12:55 am at 12:55 am #1196156
Huju -“And you could have written, in the active voice, that your grandmother taught (or told) you to find a pretty wife.”
Well, do you have one for me?!?November 28, 2016 1:10 am at 1:10 am #1196157
“I do not know the particulars of the situation but have you ever considered having a friend call your daughters references for a “test” call? While unpleasant, it is better than the alternative…”
Just ask a sheilah first as to whether it’s allowed in terms of hilchos loshon hora. I recently read in Sefer Chofetz Chaim that something like that may be assur. (I don’t remember if that was the exact scenario, but I think it was either that or something similar).November 28, 2016 1:12 am at 1:12 am #1196158
Believing – +1 is a Coffee Room term. I think it means that you agree with the person and like what they wrote. I don’t know where the term came from – I just kept noticing that people do it here, so I started doing it too.November 28, 2016 1:52 am at 1:52 am #1196159
again you are attributing words to my post that are not written by me.
I never used the word ‘pretty,’ so to simply have written that my grandmother told me to find a pretty wife is a falsehood.
Grandmother’s admonition was to look at the girl’s mother for a view of what the girl would look like in the future and decide if it was acceptable as a mate.
Some women age more gracefully than others, if a ‘pretty’ 20 year old had a mother who presented herself as a washed out hag the warning signals would go off. OTOH if a plain 20 year old had a mother who presented herself in a well groomed and confident manner, the girl might be someone worthy of consideration as a lifetime mate.November 28, 2016 2:00 am at 2:00 am #1196160
I often use the passive voice when I neither wish to make attribution or don’t have permission to do so. This is not necessarily weaseling or obfuscating.
I practice family law and often we have to leave the names and/or clues to the identity of minors or abuse victims out of what is written that it becomes habit.November 28, 2016 2:36 am at 2:36 am #1196161
CTLawyer, your writing is excellent. It’s just one person’s critique.November 28, 2016 2:43 am at 2:43 am #1196162
Just ask a sheilah first as to whether it’s allowed in terms of hilchos loshon hora. I recently read in Sefer Chofetz Chaim that something like that may be assur. (I don’t remember if that was the exact scenario, but I think it was either that or something similar).
They are welcome to ask their own shaila, and I actually meant to add that disclaimer. Personally, I know one Rav who I think actually suggested it (and may even do it himself) and another Rav who said it was ok. Thanks for the reminder.November 28, 2016 2:59 am at 2:59 am #1196163
Kapusta – ok. I wouldn’t have thought of it, but I’m pretty sure I saw something like this in Sefer Chafetz Chaim recently. But I don’t remember the details. It’s the type of thing most people wouldn’t think of, but when you think about it, you can see why it’s assur. In any case, it does need a sheilah. and your case may have had some details that were different.November 28, 2016 3:23 am at 3:23 am #1196164
If memory serves me, in both cases, I think it was pretty similar as they were singles who felt they were having trouble getting (the right) yesses, (and not the type you would expect to be having difficulty), though one was a friend repeating her personal experience as far as the psak she got and I was less involved in the details. I cant imagine that a person would be required to continue using potentially problematic references but absolutely, it would have to be done in the right way. I was comfortable suggesting it based on what I was told firsthand, but they can check with a Rav before acting on anything. Thanks for bringing it up.November 28, 2016 3:30 am at 3:30 am #1196165
What does a Rav’s bracha for shidduchim do? Would it potentially override any insecurities?
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