October 12, 2011 4:38 am at 4:38 am #599932
In truth i do have a serious point to make. In a world where we are dispersed into secular society and very little time to engage ourselves in ruchniasdika things, its much harder for girls to remain ideal in their yiddishkiet as much as bochurim. Girls that are out of seminary for more than a year loose their zest (or brainwashing in some crowds) and go out with whom they think is for them but they are ahead of themselves. Also they loose ties with teachers and rebbeim. Bochurim on the otherhand remain in yeshiva all through out these important times, have that same zest and have their rebbeim.October 12, 2011 4:43 am at 4:43 am #820695Bar ShattyaMember
I have a serious point to make. since it was always the custom for womenfolk not to get such an insane education until Mrs. shnerer came along, apparently its not all that integral to their yiddishkeit. if the supeficial education wears off and the truth comes out, thats when you know who you really are meant to be
editedOctober 12, 2011 4:45 am at 4:45 am #820696shlishiMember
Very true. Which is one of the reasons many Gedolim (i.e. Rav Avigdor Miller zt’l) strongly recommend that girls get married as early as possible, i.e. right out of high school.October 12, 2011 5:00 am at 5:00 am #820697Kshmo Kein HuMember
The disrespect in your post is appalling. What a way to refer to the woman who basically saved generations of yiddishe mothers, thereby saving their kids and kid’s kids. Obviously when Gedolim decided to support the Bais Yaakov movement they did feel it was integral for girls’ yiddishkeit. A solid Jewish education for Jewish girls who are the mothers and builders of Klal Yisroel is hardly superficial.October 12, 2011 5:01 am at 5:01 am #820698
Many people have asked why so superficial and go for frumer families? Well because of this. At least although not in seminary, they have a wonderful spiritual atmosphere to come home to. A home that can keep the girls neshama lit with a bren a little longer.October 12, 2011 5:03 am at 5:03 am #820699Bar ShattyaMember
blah blah blah blah blahOctober 12, 2011 5:11 am at 5:11 am #820700OfcourseMember
I cant believe what I read in the original post.
From my perspective as a Shadchan, with very few exceptions, despite the guys remaining in a Yeshivish atmosphere and many of the girls leaving it, I see the girls as much more truly temimusdik and ruchniusdik and less materialistic than the guys.
Does anyone else see it my way?October 12, 2011 5:11 am at 5:11 am #820701Kshmo Kein HuMember
hahaha you know i’m right. I love it. Looove it.October 12, 2011 5:14 am at 5:14 am #820702
Bar shattya(ya nice name)-People who learn the torah all day=GEDOILIM, PEOPLE WHO MAKE UP THINGS=BAR SHATTYA!October 12, 2011 5:19 am at 5:19 am #820703
Temmimusdik..not ruchniasdik. Its a misconception that they are one and the same. Alot of times the girl herself might be suprised to find out shes not as frum as she thought. They want a good learner, with great personality, and speaks well…hmm its fine but shes no rebbitzen. Alot guys have trouble bec. those girls who want personality..most of the time arent as frum as the learning they want.October 12, 2011 5:23 am at 5:23 am #820704
Oh and i was talking about guys in yeshiva.October 12, 2011 6:24 am at 6:24 am #820705ChachamParticipant
yashrus20- were you on the cr 2 years ago. i seem to remember such a name.October 12, 2011 7:07 am at 7:07 am #820706kapustaParticipant
yashrus20- were you on the cr 2 years ago. i seem to remember such a name.
Amazingly, your profile seems to be completely empty. Any explanations?October 12, 2011 12:51 pm at 12:51 pm #820707
Would you agree that you are having a harder time getting a date/bisho for some of these very “aidel” and fine looking girls?
We all know of such girls who are 25+, dress tziusdik(not skimpy and fit clothing), wear their hair nice and neat and are not made up like clowns or those of front cover,so called “fashion”(garbage) magazines? Is one of the first questions, when redting a girl “what does she look like”?
In my opinion, even a girl who is out of school does her hishtadlos to listen or go to a shiur to keep her frumkeit. Some girls change as time goes because they feel perhaps looking and behaving more “with it” will get them a shidduch.
All in all, there are many great girls out there, too many 40 and 50+ still eager to be married.October 12, 2011 1:05 pm at 1:05 pm #820708ChachamParticipant
my login name is not chachamOctober 12, 2011 1:57 pm at 1:57 pm #820709ImaofthreeParticipant
I am taking a break from trying to make shidduchim. So tired of being asked by the mother of the boy “Is the girl skinny”? Their very first question and their main priority. The girls don’t ask if the boy is skinny!October 12, 2011 5:08 pm at 5:08 pm #820710happiestMember
Don’t know if this point was made yet because I have not yet read through all the posts but a lot of girls when they first come out of seminary are on a high. Then they get married right away and marry someone who is also on that same madreiga as she is (when she first comes out of sem). Problem is a lot of the time the girl falls from her high and then there is the problem of the two of them not being on the same madreiga. This can lead to divorce. In fact, I know a handful of people who have gotten divorced for this reason.
I also know someone who was on a high after sem and told me that she wanted to marry a guy just like my brother. Luckily, she did not get married the yr right after sem because the guy she married is very diff from my brother (still a great guy though) and if she would have married the ‘other’ typa guy I think it would have led to disaster.
This is why I think getting married right after seminary can be good for some people but not for others. It’s ok to wait a year or two to get married- IMHO:)October 12, 2011 5:14 pm at 5:14 pm #820711popa_bar_abbaParticipant
I am taking a break from trying to make shidduchim. So tired of being asked by the mother of the boy “Is the girl skinny”? Their very first question and their main priority. The girls don’t ask if the boy is skinny!
Me too. I’m tired of the first question the girls ask is “is he learning?”
“Is he an oved Hashem?”
“Is he doing his tachlis?”
Even, “Is he a talmid chochom?” (As we know, most girls would say yes to 22 year old planning to learn for 3 years and no to a 25 year old who already learned those 3 years and is going to work now).
Asking if she is pretty is far more innocuous.October 12, 2011 5:33 pm at 5:33 pm #820712
I was on here two years ago.
imaofthree-its better for the girl that she doesnt get said no to after the first date. If a guys mother asks then thats what he wants. Making him go on a date blindly isnt going to help anybody.October 25, 2011 2:21 pm at 2:21 pm #820713BTGuyParticipant
Any recommendations for good Shadchanim for a BTGuy in the Lakewood area?October 25, 2011 4:16 pm at 4:16 pm #820714cinderellaMember
Maybe we girls should increase our standards to teach you guys a lesson. Some guys think that they can walk around with a beer belly and shlumpy clothes and smoke and look like a bum and then have the nerve to reject girls that are way more presentable then them but maybe aren’t a size 2.
Grow up people.
Of course- you are absolutely 100% right, thank you.
and BS- who do you think you are??
yes, thank youOctober 25, 2011 5:31 pm at 5:31 pm #820715HealthParticipant
BS is somewhat right. I’m not against the BY movement, but how is it that Most girls in their teens or early twenties don’t know how to do any household chores? They might know Nach and Meforshim, but it’s not too many that know how to cook, clean, wash, mend, etc.!October 25, 2011 6:16 pm at 6:16 pm #820716
When I was dating, I wanted a slim, nice looking girl.
I was slim, (still am) dressed sharp, (still do) and I haven’t gotten any complaints about my appearance B”H.
Many guys I know are like that. They are handsome, dress well,
don’t smoke, and want a similar partner similar to themselves.
I don’t see the big avleh. It so happens, not to C”V knock anyone,
but girls tend to be more on the heavy side than boys.
Maybe it’s from helping their mother bake cakes after school,
or from not playing basketball everyday, or lacking a physical outlet or introduction to one, or having it accepted as Tzniusdik.
Be that as it may, many slim guys in their 20’s – 30’s struggle with an abundance of fuller girls on the market as opposed to slimmer ones.
Today with the younger generation things are different than say 20 years ago, and there seems to be more activities being done by girls as well as a bigger awareness about health and physique.
So I guess today’s young teenagers when they hit the market wont have to worry about “is she skinny?” although I shudder thinking of what the new problem will be. As today most younger teens are skinny, dress very much within the boundaries of style,some are very stylish indeed, even from more chasiddishe circles.
So maybe i should be positive and assume they won’t have to worry
about gashmius, only of how good a girl she is.
So the shidduch crises should stop with the younger generation BH!
Though I secretly pray they wont pull out a new measuring stick entirely just to scour the market like one looks for an esrog.
That may be another reason why so many guys are looking for younger girls, as they tend to not be so nebby, and not dress so shlumpy, no offense to the older girls, I just wonder why they wouldn’t get with the program for their own sake.
As an amateur shaddchan I noticed this difference between younger and older girls.
I suggest to these older girls who aren’t particularly makpid on dressing with it, to please ask a younger sibling to help you.
You don’t have to compromise on Tznius, but you have to try to dress like your from this current time and are not from Amish country.
Please don’t take offense, this is only for your benefit.
The guys are a little too much aware 🙁 of what is with it and what is nebby, maybe its their mothers, or sisters fault, maybe just technology and yeridas hadoros, but you have to acknowledge
this and take the necessary steps.
Again, no compromise on Tznius, but some of you mistakenly equate dressing up to date with being Un-tzanua. That is Not the case.October 25, 2011 6:29 pm at 6:29 pm #820717
It so happens, not to C”V knock anyone,
but girls tend to be more on the heavy side than boys.
b_h: For some reason I though the reverse is the case.October 25, 2011 6:31 pm at 6:31 pm #820718
b_h: Why don’t Rebbetzin’s (Rebbe’s wives, wives of Gedolei Yisroel and Roshei Yeshivas and Rabbonim) “dress up to date” and stylish?October 25, 2011 6:48 pm at 6:48 pm #820719
1) Im talking about guys single not married, yes they tend to be slimmer.
2)For the same reason Rebbes and Rosh Yeshivas don’t dress up to date.
I havent seen a respectable rosh yeshiva with a pink tie …yet.
or an Armani Frak. I havent seen a Chosuva rebbe wearing Prada eye wear.
They are supposed to be Muram Me’ha’am. That doesn’t make it wrong to dress with it.
Some Rosh Yeshivas don’t use cell phones, at least in public. That doesn’t make it wrong to use one. It just doesn’t “Pass” for them.
(I’d like to argue with you that some rebbes wives as well as some Roshei Yeshivas spouses do very much dress in style.)
You obviously haven’t been around. Does it “Pass”? Not Really!
but I assure you (sadly) it is done. Not a majority, but you assume its unheard of.
Yes, In my opinion a Rebbe should look like hes from another century, another time. Maybe that’s just me.October 25, 2011 7:50 pm at 7:50 pm #820720
You misunderstood b_h.
My question was regarding your suggestion that frum girls dress “up to date” and stylish. The WIVES, i.e. Rebbetzins, of Gedolim and RY’s don’t do so. Why not? Why your wife yes?October 25, 2011 8:25 pm at 8:25 pm #820721
I still don’t understand you. Are you saying that like every bocher is gonna be a future Rosh yeshiva and every girl a future rebitzin?
The same way a tamid chochom shouldn’t be shleping a goat in the street doesn’t make it wrong for any person to do so.
It won’t even be considered a Middas Chassidus if yankel the farmer
stopped being seen with his cattle.
A Talmid Chochom has extra behavior requirements and as such must do things differenly than everyone else. Anything pertaining to him, his wife for instance must also consider this and make sure to coincide with his behavior lest it take away from his kovod which is Kavod Hatorah. So If everybody eats in a pizza shop they don’t sit down and eat there to be muvdal, and different from the rest.
If the rest all wore purple he would wear blue or black.
Not because the color purple is assur, just to be different, Muvdal.
Shein; Why do Roshei Yeshiva not wear suits, short jackets?
What’s wrong? Is it Assur? Why cant they wear a suit like everyone else? Why do they have to be different?
Why does a Rebbe wear a fancy Tish Beketsha covered in gold flowers or blue, whatever. Why not a simple black Beketsha? We know who he is, we wont lose him in the crowd.
He sits in a special chair. Isnt that enough?October 25, 2011 8:30 pm at 8:30 pm #820722OneOfManyParticipant
Bar Shattya: “since it was always the custom for womenfolk not to get such an insane education until Mrs. shnerer came along”
– why do you think she DID come along?
It’s interesting how this thread has degenerated from talking about girls’ ruchnius to their clothing styles/sizes. Seems like the disease is catchy…October 25, 2011 9:07 pm at 9:07 pm #820723
b_h: All I am asking for is two answers (not a comparison to other questions):
1) Why don’t Rebbetzin’s dress “up to date”/stylish?
2) Why should regular wives dress “up to date”/stylish?
And whatever the answer to “2” is (i.e. why regular wives *should*), why doesn’t it apply to Rebbetzins (i.e. why do Rebbetzins not have that same need for being “up to date”/stylish)?
Thank You!October 26, 2011 6:41 pm at 6:41 pm #820724
Let me be very clear. Firstly, I was referring to single girls
“looking for a shidduch”, who do not dress up to date, (rather quite nebby) to dress up to date in order make themselves more appealing to the other side, or at least not to detract them by dressing shlumpy.
I am not talking about married women, who if their husband
preferred it IMHO should ALSO dress up to date.
If their husband does not care, (he is into higher things)
it is their choice to dress as nebby as they want if
it isn’t considered unattractive to their spouse.
If your cannot decipher answers to both your questions from these
statements… I’ll clarify myself.
A Rebbe or Rosh Yeshiva, older respectable ones that is,
(not talking about a young person) Should be on a higher spiritual level and not feel meshubad to any style or mode. Their wifes in turn being their spiritual partner shouldn’t either be tied down
to fashion or the need to wear the latest designer labels.
That still doesn’t mean they should dress nebby. They should look classy and regal in a way that makes them stand out as more respectable. If they followed the latest fashion and wore the latest labels, it would detract from their respectability and
in turn the Kavod of their husbands, and other women would view them as peers just as materialistic as themselves.
Although all of klal Yisroel are considered royalty,
our leaders are the cream of the crop, and just like Lehavdil, a king or president wouldn’t address the nation at the podium in Crocs, (aside from Obama) So too do we expect our leaders to not just be different in their behavior but their dress as well.
Just imagine a Choshuve Rosh Yeshiva that his wife was know to be obsessed by fashion and always wearing the latest. It certainly would detract from her and her husbands Kavod.
Not because it is halachacally wrong, it just doesn’t Pass for
her title to be so into materialism.
Again, the general nation has always been below the level of our leaders. The problem with this Chatzuf generation is that everyone feels themselves a Gadol Hador, or a Rosh Yeshiva, or at least a Talmud Chacham. When this attitude allows them to disrespect those who are worthy, that is a problem.
Oh, I almost forgot, if a so called R”Y or Rebbe needs his wife to wear the latest designers and be in the height of fashion,
I, would not consider him a Rosh Yeshiva or Rebbe, and I doubt most ehrliche yidden would, either.October 26, 2011 7:14 pm at 7:14 pm #820725hockaroundtheclockMember
Hashem took time to make chava look good for adam even though there was no competition shidduchimwise. Kinda shows how important it is.
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