July 1, 2020 2:01 pm at 2:01 pm #1878516
First some small quibbles. 1)Maybe I doubt your second point as well. Maybe too many people think that the average yeshiva guy is a true learner. 2)I do not know why, but some people with excellent middos had to suffer through unhappy marriages until they got divorced. Marriage is a unique relationship, just because they treat each other well, does not mean they can build a happy home together. 3)Getting married without a plan is not the same as getting married because everyone else is. 4) There is a focus today on end of Kollel training. Long Term Kollel is good training for relationships in the workplace. (Except for the other gender part.)
What you wrote about learning and middos can be true up to a point. Once a boy gets to extreme erudition of shas, he must have overcome his personal tendencies. Someone who learns a lot, but is stuck on their own worldview will stall in his Torah knowledge. The Torah demands subservience of our experiences to it’s Eternal Truths. An ignoramus is not bothered by this demand, because he does not learn enough. The Torah gives him what he needs to support (almost) any idea he chooses. He does not know enough to see that Torah also challenges his ideas and remakes them. An average yeshiva boy will stick to topics that fit his experiences, so he is also not challenged to much. And, over time the Torah molds his thinking.
But someone who learns through all of shas and beyond, Is constantly being challenged to mold themselves to the Torah ideal. If they do not follow through on the inner work, they will miss out on the underlying concepts that bring The Whole Torah together. And ‘extreme erudition of shas’ will elude them. I believe this to be the meaning of the story with Rav Chaim Vital and his student. Along with Rav Moshe Feinstein’s Torah comes Rav Moshe Feinstein’s Middos. To be precise, Rav Moshe Feinstein’s extreme Middos brought about his greatness in Torah.July 1, 2020 2:32 pm at 2:32 pm #1878576
@n0m, why don’t you date her? this maybe the first YWN shidduchJuly 1, 2020 3:40 pm at 3:40 pm #1878585
1) I am not a long anything. 2) Unfiltered internet does not bother me anymore. 3) I promised myself that I will not be in the parshah until I make peace with the concept of Today’s Jewish Community/ies. 4) Zero interest in getting married now.July 1, 2020 3:41 pm at 3:41 pm #1878606☕ DaasYochid ☕Participant
Unfiltered internet does not bother me anymore.
That is extremely dangerous and unfortunate.July 1, 2020 4:26 pm at 4:26 pm #1878592GRATEFULBLACParticipant
@n0m “Once a boy gets to extreme erudition of shas, he must have overcome his personal tendencies”.
– Not quite sure what you are referring to? – Do you mean like a Brisker or Breslover who live their lives according to the extreme dictates of their philosophies or are you talking about somebody who has found the inner meaning of the Torah and darshens his own rules and laws?
– At the end of the day man and wife have to live together and be happy, eat meals together, change nappies and bring up a family. Go on holiday and clean the dishes.
– Anything else and you are asking for trouble in a marriage.
– You know the story of RABBI Moshe Feinstein and the little boy in camp, Reb Moshe was learning one day, but saw a little boy left playing on his own. Reb Moshe got up and started playing ball with him. Why should that little boy be left alone and unhappy if I can make him happy! To be precise Reb Moshe’s middos tovos, which he learnt from the Torah, brought about his great love of Klal Yisroel and made him a true Tsaddik and Godol Hador!July 1, 2020 4:26 pm at 4:26 pm #1878614JosephParticipant
WB, DY.July 2, 2020 12:43 pm at 12:43 pm #1878814
Reason #3, then you better be prepared to die single, no one ever solved that issue.July 2, 2020 1:04 pm at 1:04 pm #1878906🍫Syag LchochmaParticipant
yes, those who are overly critical/judgemental and have trouble letting go have a very hard time solving any issues. You both seem to have the same prescription glasses.July 2, 2020 4:49 pm at 4:49 pm #1879036
I used to cringe when someone would say I do not need a filter. My mindset has changed from hearing too many people boast that they got around the filter. Whatever people choose, they have to abide by it. Or loose their freedom of choice.
PS This device is filtered.July 2, 2020 4:56 pm at 4:56 pm #1879044
I was leaving it for you to solve.) I just need to make piece with it. A married couple has to live in some community. Wit the other two choices (Keep switching communities or no community are bad ways to build Jewish Families.) I could skip marriage.July 2, 2020 5:18 pm at 5:18 pm #1879057opinionated-2Participant
n0 how old are you?
If you are still 24 or under, you don’t need to rush to get married.
But if you are older than that I would suggest you speak to someone about why you don’t feel the need to get married.
An unfiltered computer is VERY dangerous.
I think you are just too sheltered to realize it. 🙂July 6, 2020 12:58 pm at 12:58 pm #1880073
What is worse; giving a bochur unfiltered internet, or giving him filtered internet that he will get around easily without you ever knowing about it?July 6, 2020 1:02 pm at 1:02 pm #1880085
The Torah defines and redefines our activities ad infinitum. What seems like a universal halachah to the everyday Talmid Chohom, is actually a panorama of responses for a Master of Shas. This is demonstrated through the biographies of Reb Chaim Brisker and Rav Meir Shapiro. Even though they were fundamentally meticulous with themselves, they were extremely patient and caring with the well being of others. To an extant that seemed to go against halachah in the eyes of the simple folk. To reach that point of erudition in Shas, requires one to drop their own preconceived notions even in regards to themselves.July 6, 2020 1:02 pm at 1:02 pm #1880084waitingforashidduchParticipant
What about no internet at allJuly 6, 2020 1:12 pm at 1:12 pm #1880103
Great idea!July 6, 2020 3:04 pm at 3:04 pm #1880117
the worst is a bucher who has no intentions of getting married giving advice on shidduchimJuly 6, 2020 5:33 pm at 5:33 pm #1880161The little I knowParticipant
How about a chosson or kallah teacher that has serious marital problems?July 6, 2020 5:37 pm at 5:37 pm #1880170
Other than very close friends, I would not give shidduch advice at any stage in my life. Not my thing. My posts here have revolved around the definition of ‘long-term learner’, and filtered versus unfiltered internet. To be clear, I was told by from a wise and knowing source not to take any advice from online commentators.July 6, 2020 5:48 pm at 5:48 pm #1880185waitingforashidduchParticipant
Why? He probably knows things from his friends.July 13, 2020 12:32 pm at 12:32 pm #1881766kavod hatorahParticipant
If she said that she is a really frum girl who wants a working guy, would everyone be so quick to tell he to consider going out with a long term learner if everything else fits? Why not?July 13, 2020 10:45 pm at 10:45 pm #1881990bsharg2Participant
“What is worse; giving a bochur unfiltered internet, or giving him filtered internet that he will get around easily without you ever knowing about it?”
This makes me sad to even hear this. I hope these are rare cases. I feel sorry for these bochurim. They are substituting internet addiction for the true, everlasting happiness that comes from marriage with a beautiful wife.July 14, 2020 6:27 pm at 6:27 pm #1882273opinionated-2Participant
@bsharg, not necessarily.
For some people, being married would be gehinom for them and their spouse.
If someone isn’t ready for marriage it is a really bad idea to get married.
Of course no one is completely ready. But if someone has serious issues with being in such a kind of relationship as a marriage, it will be awful for them to get married before they get help.
Especially today when divorce is such an easy road to take, unfortunately lo aleinu.
It’s hard enough to work on your marriage when you are relatively emotionally healthy!
I’m only referring to people who have serious issues with intimacy, not someone who is “having fun” and doesn’t see the point in getting married yet.July 15, 2020 4:44 pm at 4:44 pm #1882576
The thinking that a teenager wants unfiltered internet predominately for that, is a myth. The number one reason Yeshiva Bachurim want to be online is social media. The less serious guys want to connect with people, as everyone around them is seriously learning. And the solid guys need to know what the next ‘biggest happening’ will be so they could know which night they should schedule their next break. Because chas v’shalom should a solid bachur spend his free time according to his own plan.
Also, the guy with a side obsession – history, science, sports, movies, clothing, novels, politics, or social media itself – has an easier (And bothers the other bachurim less.) time having good internet access. Plus, those that are high maintenance (e. g. clothing, food) stress about it much less if they have access to it without leaving yeshiva.
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