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live right – of course i’m biased, my opinions are based of my observations. As I wrote there are a select few girls who are sincerely dedicated to Torah. However, I would venture to say that most of them, as the thread stated, want to tell their teachers and friends by their vort that they are marrying a “learning guy”. Yes, i would dare to say that it is because it is circumscribed and they just go with the flow, girls have always behaved that way.
VM – perhaps I didn’t make myself clear? I was addressing the sad fact that only a minority of girls have such lofty aspirations, while a growing number just don’t want to stick out and have to tell everyone that her chosson is in college or working. It’s kind of awkward to say that to your sem rebitzen.
Nevertheless, societal complaints and generalizations aside, every girl marries a boy and they have the choice to start out their life the way they would like to. Learning must be the basis for every household, that’s the way a successful happy home is started. If this learning is not altruistic, what kind of start is this?
Yes I agree that there are a painful number of girls who don’t think for themselves and therefore marry whomever it seems hip to marry and then go on to raise another generation of non-thinkers. But, to those of us who think for ourselves and have some backbone in that spine of ours, we make a decision and are proud of it. and we don’t care what seminary rebbetzins think because we understand that not everything is for everyone and we have chosen what we believe to be the best for us. that goes for those who choose what the rebbetzins happen to be preaching as well. but we did not make this choice out of the lack of the use of our brain cells, we made this choice consciously.
And a side point, my sem rebbetzin would not consider a girl who marries a working boy any lower that one who marries a learner. Because she understands that not everyone is cut out for everything. SO its just a matter of picking the right seminary. which leads you to every other thread in this instant coffee coffeeroom.
It’s not even that some of us aren’t “cut out” for full-time learning; there are some who hold like many binding halachic sources that learning torah for financial compensation is assur.
rebdoniel: The same sources you are talking about that say one can’t be paid for learning, also say a yeshiva rebbi and a congregation rov cannot be paid. So you’ll have to take that position too if you don’t want to be hypocritical. But in any event the Rama brings an opinion that the custom is that Torah scholars do benefit from their learning, by support from the community. The Shach there says that is what we pasken as. The Rama also brings other opinions that the community should support its Torah scholars even to the point of affluence!
I take payment for cantorial services, technically. I don’t accept extra payment for teaching.
However, there’s a teshuva of the Rashbatz that allows scholars functioning as the communal rav to accept payment; he reasons that ince the Kohen Gadol receives material support from the community, how much more so should a Torah scholar be entitled to such support; after all, he is equally performing a service for the community.
The Rema also says that a person important to the community may accept money from it, without violating the prohibition against benefiting from the Torah, for he is honoring the Torah, not using it.
Your typical Zevi Chaim learning in kollel or beis medresh doesn’t fulfill either of these criteria for getting paid. The Rema clearly has someone chashuv in mind, not a typical guy learning.
Mod(s): True, and thanks for looking out for me :), but people know already how old I am (I’ve made sem threads quite recently).
Shidduch Crisis: Girls are deep, guys are shallow.
What did Mod-80 change the title to?
That wasn’t very nice of him to call mentally challenged people shallow.
HIR -“Girls are deep, guys are shallow.”
Don’t make generalizations! Most people are shallow – boys & girls. There are some that are deep & also some that are intelligent.
The sea is deep, lakes are shallow. With the exception of one lake in Siberia that is so deep it holds 10% of the world’s fresh water.
I feel sorry for the girl who only wants a full time forever learner, and then one morning wakes up nauseous out of her mind and must get to work, to support her family. What a rude surprise of what real life looks like.
No time in history have women been expected to earn a living so their husbands can learn. It is scandalous! Women have to bare children, raise them, and run a household, which is a full time and exhausting project on its own. Adding to it the responsibility of parnossah is simply not fair to women.
My zeida O”H told me that when he was in shidduchim no girl was interested in a boy who couldn’t support her. He worked hard and learned more hours a day than the average kollel fellow.
This without even taking the children into account, who are being raised by babysitters 9-5 and then brought home to an exhausted mommy.
health: you just generalized that most people are shallow! I know few that are shallow, many that are deep. I doubt Hashem would create a spiritual world with most of the occupants being shallow.
All people are deep. It just doesn’t always show.
“No time in history have women been expected to earn a living so their husbands can learn. It is scandalous! Women have to bare children, raise them, and run a household, which is a full time and exhausting project on its own. Adding to it the responsibility of parnossah is simply not fair to women.”
These days the women have both k’lallos from the eitz hadaas!!
(Although supporting your husband in kollel should not be viewed as a curse, if you you do view it that way obviously it is not for you)
Rebyidd: if someones depth doesnt show than how deep can they be? it must be very shallowly deep. usually when you talk to someone it takes just a few minutes to determine if their deep. Which of course also depends on your depth perception.
groundwater
HIR -“health: you just generalized that most people are shallow! I know few that are shallow, many that are deep.”
Yes, I did! This was to defend against your Mozay Shem Ra – against guys.
“I doubt Hashem would create a spiritual world with most of the occupants being shallow.”
I doubt Hashem would create a spiritual world with all of the guys being shallow.
From your post above:
“guys are shallow”
You’re only really a guy if you’re a reincarnation of Guy Fawkes.
Bored: “Although supporting your husband in kollel should not be viewed as a curse, if you you do view it that way obviously it is not for you)”
Hashem said that parnossah is a curse. Not I. I don’t see how the “curse” is lifted because it enables your spouse to learn. The work is a curse.
I think it is a zchus to work so your husband can learn, as long as it isn’t interfering with the well being of the wife and/or children.
When I had my second baby I said to my husband, I was happy to take upon myself the curse of Adam until now, now I feel swamped with the curse of Chava b”H, and I don’t feel physically or emotionally able to juggle both. And I absolutely refuse to have my kinderlach raised by a babysitter. (I was taking baby #1 with me to work, which couldn’t work with 2 babies).
And so, my dear husband had to leave his beloved (to both of us) kollel and go to work to support his family. Which is as it should be. And it didn’t stop him from finishing shas.
Don’t assume that something doesn’t exist just because you don’t see it.
Health: I wasn’t literally saying that all guys are shallow, it was just a way to bump the thread and say that not all girls are shallow. Am I wrong to say there are very many shallow people in this world?
HIR -“Health: I wasn’t literally saying that all guys are shallow, it was just a way to bump the thread and say that not all girls are shallow.”
The best thing for a post started by PBA, is to leave it alone. He/she is always joking around!
“Am I wrong to say there are very many shallow people in this world?”
That’s life. Focus on yourself & don’t worry about changing others!
health: My point is that i dont think thats life! i dont think its true! and ill reiterate what i said before- would Hashem create a spiritual world with mostly shallow people? i still never got a good answer.
There are 5 shallow people in the world.
HIR -“still never got a good answer”
This is my third try. Did you know – what the % of Goyim are in this world?
Health: Your right. Most of the world is shallow. Now I will rephrase the question.
Hashem, who is a spiritual entity creates a spiritual world. He chooses one nation who will serve Him and be His Am Hanivchar. Why would that chosen nation be comprised of mostly shallow people?!
If you think most people are shallow, you may be one of the 5.
Rebyidd: explain your logic in that, please.
HIR -“He chooses one nation who will serve Him and be His Am Hanivchar. Why would that chosen nation be comprised of mostly shallow people?”
You’re on strike #2. Did you know that most Jews aren’t Frum?!?
I was teasing illogically, but it is shallow to jump to the conclusion that others are shallow. However, the shallowness of the jumping is a shallowness of action, not a state of being that applies to the person himself.
Health- stop nitpicking my posts please! I know that you know what I mean!
Rebyidd: I don’t think its shallow to call other people shallow. yes its shallow to jump to conclusions but that’s not what I’m doing! you cant play with the facts!
Heelppppp no one understands me in this worlddddddd
Queen, totally with you…
What makes you think those other people are shallow?
Rebyidd: because I talk to them, and am affiliated with them, and I see they have an inability to think even slightly beneath the surface!
How can you see into their minds?
I’m perceptive enough to determine if a person is shallow or deep. Its not do difficult. But yeah, how would you understand. It’s okay, most of the world is like you anyway.
HIR -“Health- stop nitpicking my posts please! I know that you know what I mean!”
Don’t take it personally! I have to post that way. Because when I post the way I really feel, it always gets deleted!
Nobody in the world is like me, and no religious person could believe that people in general are shallow.
Health: I guess all your feeling all controversial or otherwise offensive. that’s tough.. But I wont take it personally:)
HIR: “you cannot be both young and wise. Young people who pretend to be wise to the ways of the world are mostly just cynics.” Stephen Colbert
Queen -“Young people who pretend to be wise to the ways of the world are mostly just cynics”
Why is that? I’m not young, but I am wise; I am also a cynic.
I’m a cynic without being all that wise…
(and I’m young!)
All humans are wise. All humans are fools.
I’m not a cynic. I am relatively young, not very wise, but decently deep.
How is deep and wise different?
Queen: its different because you claim that I cant be young and wise. But as I am young, I was forced to find a different word:)
That doesn’t answer the question. How does wise and deep differ, so that you can be one without being the other?
Deep: The ability to understand concepts that are beneath surface level. Smart like chachmas hachaim
Wise: Smart, but more like book smart.
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