January 3, 2016 4:46 am at 4:46 am #616962
Why is everything wrong in shidduchim pinned on “the boys mother” by so many people? First of all, the boys father has as much to do, and more to do, with the boys’ shidduchim than the mother. Second of all, the girls’ mothers have as much to do with any purported, perceived and real problems in shidduchim as the boys’ mothers.
Teretz is that the people blaming the boys’ mothers need a scapegoat for their own shortcomings.January 3, 2016 6:07 am at 6:07 am #1122844☢️ Rand0m3x 🎲Participant
Is there any possibility that this information came from shadchonim?January 3, 2016 10:46 am at 10:46 am #1122845
“First of all, the boys father has as much to do, and more to do, with the boys’ shidduchim than the mother”
What do you base this on?January 3, 2016 8:26 pm at 8:26 pm #1122846
Joe?January 3, 2016 8:27 pm at 8:27 pm #1122847screwdriverdelightParticipant
Even if you were right with your assumptions, your teirutz doesn’t explain why the boy’s mother is used a scapegoat more than his father or the girl’s mother.January 3, 2016 9:23 pm at 9:23 pm #1122848
Although I don’t have a brother in the parsha myself, I spoke to a friend of mine whose 24-year-old brother was in shidduchim for the last year. She told me that her mother had a stack of resumes ad hashamayim, and every few days she’d look into another girl. She could kind of decide to say no for any random reason, until she found the “perfect” girl.
This kind of mentality is the reason that so much of what is wrong with shidduchim is blamed on the boy’s mother.
Another thing is that often boys’ mothers are looking for things in their daughters-in-law that their sons could not care less about- i.e. G.O. in high school (boys have no clue what G.O. is!), dresses in style (many boys don’t care, though some do), “bubbly/spunky”, etc. I’m not saying that this doesn’t work the other way, too, but it tends to run this way more often.
In general, the attitude of “my son has everything coming to him because he’s a top learner” (whatever a top learner means) seems to come from boys’ mothers. I’ve heard it directly from mothers and from shadchanim about the mothers.
Again, I’m not saying there aren’t others to blame- just that boys’ mothers have a lot to do with it.January 3, 2016 9:43 pm at 9:43 pm #1122849
Comlink: Which information?
Goq: From being involved in this inyan and dealing with numerous families.
sdd: They need someone to scapegoat. And the bulk of the complainings tends to come from the girls side.
technical: You seriously overestimate the mothers influence and involvement in the boys shidduchim compared to his father.January 3, 2016 10:55 pm at 10:55 pm #1122850
So what I infer from that is that people from josephs velt don’t have much respect for woman so naturally the man makes all the decisions but just because that is your experience that does not mean it is the norm.January 3, 2016 11:14 pm at 11:14 pm #1122851
I have not heard that the fathers are as involved in shidduchim as the boys’ mothers. I have daughters and all the contacts with the boys’ side have been with the mother, which considering a good number of shadchanim are women it stands to reason they would deal with the mother since it wouldn’t be tzniusdik for men to do so. I have heard all the comments, and I have yet to hear from any father friends or otherwise that they are involved in finding shidduchim for their sons, though they are involved in finding shidduchim for their daughters. I have heard so much nonsense attributed to the boys’ mother concerning looks, dress size, etc. They can’t all be made upJanuary 3, 2016 11:17 pm at 11:17 pm #1122852
Your inference is incorrect and does not logically follow what I said.January 4, 2016 12:04 am at 12:04 am #1122853
She told me that her mother had a stack of resumes ad hashamayim, and every few days she’d look into another girl. She could kind of decide to say no for any random reason, until she found the “perfect” girl.
This kind of mentality is the reason that so much of what is wrong with shidduchim is blamed on the boy’s mother.
Is that her fault? What should she do if she has a stack of resumes? Pick the worst one? Do eeny meeny miny mo?January 4, 2016 3:08 am at 3:08 am #1122854☢️ Rand0m3x 🎲Participant
Okay, replace “information” with “idea,” Joseph.January 4, 2016 3:53 am at 3:53 am #1122855
I haven’t heard shadchanim voice this idea much. It for the most part is derived on its own. The experiences of shadchanim were taken into account but I’m not familiar with them necessarily sharing the above comments.January 4, 2016 7:42 pm at 7:42 pm #1122856
“First of all, the boys father has as much to do, and more to do, with the boys’ shidduchim than the mother.”
Interesting. Most young men in shidduchim I have spoken to, specifically about shidduchim, always mention running it by their mother, asking if I can give the info directly to their mother or can their mother call me for more info. Almost never is the father the one to run things by, the one to follow up with or the one to follow up. Perhaps its just me.January 4, 2016 8:00 pm at 8:00 pm #1122857
apush: I think yours is the common experience.January 4, 2016 8:02 pm at 8:02 pm #1122858
Perhaps its just me.
No, it’s not just you.January 4, 2016 8:31 pm at 8:31 pm #1122859
It’s you and some others I would assume. There isn’t one way that everyone does it. But the mother making the parental decisions regarding the sons shidduchim is not how most bochorim’s shidduchims are conducted.
Now this is a nuanced topic. Often it is true that the mother will be the “secretary” for her sons shidduch prospects. She’ll make the notes of what was redt, will relay information, will inform others what her son is looking for, etc. But her being the shidduch secretary in no way demonstrates that she is calling the shots. She is the messenger. Often the father and/or the bochor will advise the wife/mother what questions to ask, what points to tell the shadchanim, etc.January 4, 2016 10:28 pm at 10:28 pm #1122860
“Often the father and/or the bochor will advise the wife/mother what questions to ask, what points to tell the shadchanim, etc. “
And just as often the mother asks questions that the father/son would be mortified if they knew she even asked.January 4, 2016 10:51 pm at 10:51 pm #1122861
That’s why you need to marry well in the first place. 😉January 4, 2016 11:28 pm at 11:28 pm #1122862lesschumrasParticipant
Joseph, what is the source for your opinions? How many people did you surveyed?
As usual, you make unproven , blanket assertions, then require naysayers to provide evidence.
My wife has never seen a father at a shidduch meeting, nor has s by e ever been contacted by a fatherJanuary 5, 2016 12:18 am at 12:18 am #1122864
What’s source?January 5, 2016 3:03 am at 3:03 am #1122865
DY- I’m not saying it’s her fault; obviously she has to start somewhere. I think that the reasoning of narrowing down prospects is sometimes overly ridiculous.January 5, 2016 3:16 am at 3:16 am #1122866
lessc: You took a survey and census on your view? Was it done with Gallup? Additionally, you are forming your view based on the MO demographic whereas I am referencing the chareidi demographic.January 5, 2016 5:20 am at 5:20 am #1122867
I think that the reasoning of narrowing down prospects is sometimes overly ridiculous.
Of course sometimes it is. But do you (or anyone) know how often silly nonsense is factored in? We hear the stories, because they’re both funny and sad at the same time, and stick out. But is it really that common?January 5, 2016 5:26 am at 5:26 am #1122868
DY- from the shidduch calls my friends and I have gotten since we started shidduchim, it seems to be pretty common. Obviously, there are no statistics about these things.
I don’t know if there’s a better way- doesn’t seem like it to me, to be honest- but I just try my best as the girl not to perpetuate the same mistakes.January 5, 2016 5:19 pm at 5:19 pm #1122869lesschumrasParticipant
Joseph, by attacking me and not providing your sources, you’ve proved my point.January 5, 2016 5:38 pm at 5:38 pm #1122870
You weren’t attacked, so calm down. You asked me if I took a poll on my observation so I merely asked you the same. And I made the additional point that we are talking about a different demographic than each other.January 5, 2016 5:51 pm at 5:51 pm #1122871
how broad, or narrow is the charedi demographic you are working with? I dont even want to go there, but, how do you define charedi?January 5, 2016 5:54 pm at 5:54 pm #1122872writersoulParticipant
My mom makes shidduch meetings. She has had one male participant in all of her 15+ years running them.January 6, 2016 12:48 am at 12:48 am #1122873Torah613TorahParticipant
If I was an immature boy I would totally use my mother as a cover to get what I wanted. Ie, I’m not shallow and want a skinny girl, it’s my mother who won’t let me date a skinny girl.January 7, 2016 10:18 pm at 10:18 pm #1122874
Torah613Torah- they’re the ones who don’t usually care to cover up; they outright say that they want a skinny girl.January 7, 2016 10:37 pm at 10:37 pm #1122875👑RebYidd23Participant
Most boys don’t want to marry a skinny girl, they want a pretty girl.January 7, 2016 10:55 pm at 10:55 pm #1122876
Is prettiness objective?January 7, 2016 11:24 pm at 11:24 pm #1122877
RebYidd, how do you know what MOST of anyone wants, knows, thinks, etc. There is no way to know that. I would agree that looks are a factor, but plenty of people I see are married to very average looking girls, some pretty, some not, some skinny, some otherwise. The joke is the boys seem to have less to offer than what they demand of the girls. Is that Daas Torah?January 8, 2016 12:20 pm at 12:20 pm #1122878from Long IslandParticipant
Sorry guys, but as the mother of only daughters, I will tell you that the boys mother has enormous influence on whom her son dates. Frequently, the information from the Shadchan, gotten from the young man, in no way, matches the information gotten from his mother.
Often, the mother projects WHAT SHE WANTS for her son, rather than what he wants for himself.
It had made for many sticky, uncomfortable conversations and situations.January 8, 2016 1:54 pm at 1:54 pm #1122879oomisParticipant
I totally agree with LI mom.January 8, 2016 2:40 pm at 2:40 pm #1122880
I also agree with LI mom. As I have mentioned in the past in a different thread, when I tried setting up a niece, the boy’s mother commented that the girl is not skinny and the family has no money and I quote, “I am looking for the best deal I can get for my son.” This is not an isolated incidentJanuary 8, 2016 3:10 pm at 3:10 pm #1122881
How do you ascertain from your anecdote that it isn’t an isolated incident?January 8, 2016 4:28 pm at 4:28 pm #1122882
Joseph- many, many people have shared similar experiences. Obviously anecdotal evidence is weak, but many people in shidduchim have gone through “not enough money” or “not pretty/skinny enough” coming from the boy’s mother.
B’H nothing like that ever got back to me, but I’m sure it’s been said.January 8, 2016 4:36 pm at 4:36 pm #1122883
I’ve heard similar comments in connection with shidduchim I have tried to make, like “I have resumes with prettier girls in my son’s stack” I also heard of boys mothers who basically want to visit the girl’s workplace secretly to get a look at the girl in action.January 8, 2016 4:39 pm at 4:39 pm #1122884
Many people, I suppose, have also been asked what kind of tablecloth do you use on Shabbos.
At least if you believe everything you hear.January 8, 2016 5:15 pm at 5:15 pm #1122885
Well, I have heard the tablecloth question. Truthfully, I couldnt believe it when I heard it but it wasnt as outrageous as the ankles question I once got (does she have skinny ankles!).January 8, 2016 5:23 pm at 5:23 pm #1122887HashemisreadingParticipant
Do you stack and scrape at the table?
Do you use mattress pads?
Do you use plastic tablecloths?
I don’t think there is anything inherently wrong with asking the questions, except if the answer will make the mother say yes or no to a potential questions.
I think these questions are helpful in finding out what type the family is. are they simple? classy, balebatish?January 8, 2016 5:45 pm at 5:45 pm #1122888
The questions are ridiculous. All this pre-checking is ridiculous. If it sounds good, let them go out and decide for themselves.January 8, 2016 6:49 pm at 6:49 pm #1122889HashemisreadingParticipant
Sounds can be deceiving.January 8, 2016 7:40 pm at 7:40 pm #1122890
The couple may become infatuated if they go out before due diligent research was completed.January 10, 2016 4:47 am at 4:47 am #1122891
you mean the couple that eventually marries shouldn’t like each other that much as long as the due diligence pans out. I dated a lot before I was married and did not go through the due diligence. I don’t know if the fear that a couple on a first date could be infatuated and that there is some LEGITIMATE reason why they shouldn’t continue to date.January 10, 2016 5:07 am at 5:07 am #1122892
They might “fall in love” before the research, which may demonstrate an incompatibility based on hashkafa or background or history or hidden attributes, is concluded and it may prove difficult or even impossible to break it up despite that it is a bad match.January 10, 2016 3:40 pm at 3:40 pm #1122893
I understand why a mother would want her son to marry a pretty girl, but honestly, you don’t want a mother-in-law who would be so rude to actually say the girl is not pretty enough.January 10, 2016 3:43 pm at 3:43 pm #1122894
I understand why a mother would want her son to marry a pretty girl
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