October 7, 2012 5:00 am at 5:00 am #605119
So my question is like this: as a 23 yr old very pretty girl who comes from a nice fam, $, personality, good job, etc., am really not getting all that many names (meaning yes’s from guys.) I understand that there is a “crisis” and in the grand scheme of things 23 is young (all though 5 years of dating feels like a lot!) just wondering on a practical level is there anything I can be/should be doing to help myself? Thanks in advance for all ideas:)October 7, 2012 5:19 am at 5:19 am #947432
Litvish kiryas yoelite: Cool your heels.
Mod-95October 7, 2012 5:24 am at 5:24 am #947433princess17Member
I think whenever ur supposed to get married u will get married! wether its at the age of 23 or the age 0f 19. The only thing u can do is daven and do a normal amount of hishtadlus like go to shadchanim…. I know of someone who was in shidduchim since she was like 19 I think and she finally got a date at like 22 and that date ended up being her husband so look at it this way ,the less people u go out with the better ,my mother went out with 73 guys until she found the right one and it wasnt fun,She wouldve rathered to hav less dates and meet my father right away but thats what hashem wanted so thats what happened!October 7, 2012 5:25 am at 5:25 am #947434Bar ShattyaMember
I’m also a very pretty girl with a nice personality.October 7, 2012 5:49 am at 5:49 am #947435
You two sound like a perfect shidduch… ^_^October 7, 2012 6:25 am at 6:25 am #947437WIYMember
There can be a number of possible reasons why you are still out there. Some of this may be blunt but I am not accusing just throwing out possibilities.
1. Your parents may not be saying yes to the right types of boys so you are dating boys who arent your type or arent looking for the same type of life you are looking for. This can be either because your parents dont really get what you are looking for, you dont get what you need and are telling your parents you need a type of boy which isnt really for you or because your parents want a certain type of boy or family that fits whatever picture they have in their head that they want for their daughter and what fits your family and therefore are saying no to potentially good shidduchim.
2. You are too picky.
3. Your parents arent speaking to the right shadchanim.
4. You are possibly giving off the wrong impression on dates (either coming off too frum when you are regular or coming off modern when you are regular…)
5. You arent opening up enough on dates and not sharing enough.
6. Its simply not your time yet for whatever reason Hashem deems it which isfor your ultimate good (thats if all the hishtadlus and what not is being done correctly)
7. Your parents arent being openminded enough and are saying no for silly reasons or are not doing enough research to see if the guy can be for you. For example lets say your family is yeshivish so your parents wont listen to any shidduch thats from a heimish or chassidish background and maybe your bashert is somewhat chassidish or vice versa…Or y.ou are short and refuse to date tall guys or vice versa…
8. You may not like this but if you are attractive as you say, a picture speaks a 1000 words, when your parents email your resume make sure theres a good picture attached. You dont know how much this can help. Whether you like it or not people dont believe when they hear someone is attractive because unfortunately (and I know from first hand experience) that everyone has a different idea of attractive and many girls who were mentioned to me as attractive I found to be unattractive as soon as I saw the picture. But the truly attractive girls were attractive on the picture as well. Take my word for it attach a picture to every resume you email.
9. Make sure you have the right people as references for you. I know of stories where the friends were not presenting the girl or guy in a positive enough light or were making them sound like people that they arent (either much frummer or much less frum than they are based on what they think the person wants to hear…)
Im sure I can think of more. At the end of the day remember there are a lot of single girls out there and most young guys (under 25) will want to date the 19- 20 year olds.
Dont make your parents crazy but make sure they are working the phones at least a few times a week calling shadchanim. The only way to be on the mind of a shadchan is to have your parents talk to him/her regularly so that your name is on his/her tongue.October 7, 2012 7:08 am at 7:08 am #947438
Princess – Wow, 73 dates !! Yikes!
Getaclue – I’m also 23, but just starting to date. You are lucky that you live in a big Jewish community, which I assume that you do because you say u speak with shadchannim. Where I live there are almost no frum girls to date. I don’t know what I’m going to do other than fly out of here and try and meet someone who is willing to relocate. I don’t want to be too old when I marry, but I also don’t want to rush into anything I am unsure about just bc of convenience. Dating is not pashut… : /October 7, 2012 7:25 am at 7:25 am #947439
I forgot to say… May you be matzliach 🙂October 7, 2012 10:00 am at 10:00 am #947440NaftushMember
WIY, your post captured every element that has made finding a spouse a nightmarish ordeal: the fine-tuned typecasting, the meddling parents (and the possibility that they’re not meddling enough), the importance of impression over substance, the need to align the spouses’ unbending religious practices, the quest for perfect resume tricks including references — all of which before the boy and girl are even allowed to meet! The only exception was Point no. 6, but then, has anyone since Eliezer trusted Hashem with something as important as a shidduch?
The most daunting thing about it is that every word was meant to be helpful.October 7, 2012 12:03 pm at 12:03 pm #947441Matan1Participant
Try online jewish dating like YU connects or saw you at sinai.October 7, 2012 2:02 pm at 2:02 pm #947442david26Member
it helps if you keep your options open, like one of the other people wrote, being open to all jews, as long as the hashkfa is the same will really open thing up in terms of the pool of potential men, like sefardic, chasidish background, or even modern background. Make your pool solely on the goal and hashkafa you have. just imagine if everything was right about him, hashkafa, personality, motivated, attracted…and the only thing about him was that he is…..would it really make a difference?
on reason why tu beAV was a chag is because all the shevateem were allowed to marry with one another-even though each shevt undoubtingly had different minhagim… not accusing you, but using this as a platform to voice my perspective on a situation like this…you never know who Hashem wants you to marry. Hope this helps you OR anyone else who is unfortunately limiting their options and making things harder than it has to be.
SUR KOL SUF–HASHEM IS HERE CONSTATNLY HELPING US AND WANTS WHATS BEST FOR US-GAM ZU LETOVA, BE BESEEMCHA
HATZLACHAOctober 7, 2012 2:05 pm at 2:05 pm #947443david26Member
btw 23 is not old at all, you ll be fine dont sweat itOctober 7, 2012 3:44 pm at 3:44 pm #947444princess17Member
curiosity- even though it was 73 she got married at the age of 24 so bh she wasnt old , she started young so even though she had to go through so many guys at least she still got married at a normal age!
getaclue – I think u should try also getting brachos from big gedolim in israel ,daven at amuka…October 7, 2012 4:23 pm at 4:23 pm #947445MediumThinkerMember
I’m a 25 year old guy in shidduchim and your question cannot be answered satisfactorily without a full understanding of what type of gy you are interested in. Boys get many shidduchim that all sound the sam on paper. Fortunately for me, my sister is quite talented on picking up on the character of girls to help me make my decision. However, for may boys there has to be a draw on your resume. If you are pretty, a picture will greatly help. if your parents have money make their job titles sound like they can help support a boy untill he turns 173. The same goes for your job title- walk the fine line between prestige sounding without an overload of sophistication. The most important thing is to network-not so much with shadchanim but with the neighborhood yentas. Although I dislike it, there is a subculture among dating boys (I have a hard time considering some of them men) in which certain girls/young ladies are much discussed. I must stress these ar generalities and if you would define your community and what you are looking for, you may gett a more specific answer. Good luck.October 7, 2012 5:59 pm at 5:59 pm #947446interjectionParticipant
What’s the question? How to find the one or how to facilitate enough interest from the other gender as earn an ego trip?October 7, 2012 6:46 pm at 6:46 pm #947447
Wow, I’m amazed that so many people took the time to answer! Ty! I am from the tri state area looking for an all round good guy who’s learning for now and will then go out to school or work.I have been pushed many times to provide a picture. Till now I have not done it as it honestly turns my stomach…. Am I wrong? dating guys: what’s your take on it?October 7, 2012 6:54 pm at 6:54 pm #947448
And to med. thinker: are you saying its a good thing or bad that the guys are discussing the girls? Just not sure what your point was there. Interjection: if you aren’t getting red names then you arent dating then you aren’t getting married.October 7, 2012 7:55 pm at 7:55 pm #947449
interjection, why are you so caustic so often? You really need to lighten up some.October 7, 2012 7:59 pm at 7:59 pm #947450GeshmakManParticipant
Just a guess, but I don’t think that getting 37 random opinions/answers from the CR will be that helpful!October 7, 2012 9:39 pm at 9:39 pm #947451WIYMember
Provide the picture. Its very normal procedure today and I think it will help you. The people who don’t provide the picture (often) have something to hide in my opinion. My mother always asks for a picture and if she doesnt get one she wont even consider the shidduch unless she arranges to meet the girl or see her someplace which is inconvenient and takes up peoples time obviously…October 7, 2012 10:50 pm at 10:50 pm #947452ckbshlMember
Some rather pretty people are not photogenic,if that is your problem don’t give a pic. However if you look good even in pictures what are you afraid of? I think people need to realize that usually the picture is not there for fetish purposes, rather to make an assessment of the very different perspective some people have of “pretty” or at least not unattractive!October 9, 2012 12:19 am at 12:19 am #947453twistedParticipant
A metaphor: This year I had very little time, and found no hatzlacha in finding a mehudar esrog, so I bought a “sealed box” and relied on the the yerei shamayim employed by the badatz that the esrog is what it is labeled as. When I opened it up, it was not exactly a love affair, but we stayed together over succos, and functioned well.
Now if we could develop a sensitive, vetted, no opening, no refund, “sealed box” system for shiduchim ?October 10, 2012 1:17 am at 1:17 am #947454
Now if we could develop a sensitive, vetted, no opening, no refund, “sealed box” system for shiduchim ?
twisted: That’s exactly how Jewish marriages were traditionally arranged between the groom and bride’s fathers, in advance.October 10, 2012 1:37 am at 1:37 am #947455
Etrogim are pasul if they have a mum. Even if the yerei shamayim who put it in the box weren’t aware of it when they sealed it.October 10, 2012 2:35 am at 2:35 am #947456
twisted, TLKY: The reason that system worked then is becuase it was naturally suited to the social/cultural dynamic of the times. You cannot argue that it be implemented now without arguing that that entire way of life be recreated. Case in point: the people who that system still does work for are the ones who have pretty much preserved that dynamic.October 10, 2012 2:52 am at 2:52 am #947457
I agree with your comment, OOM. But, my personal opinion is that those who have preserved that age old dynamic are comparatively much better off for it.October 10, 2012 2:01 pm at 2:01 pm #947458popa_bar_abbaParticipant
Now if we could develop a sensitive, vetted, no opening, no refund, “sealed box” system for shiduchim ?
Because if you think that marriages are bad now…October 10, 2012 2:30 pm at 2:30 pm #947459avhabenParticipant
I think marriages are pretty good, with room for improvement.October 10, 2012 3:45 pm at 3:45 pm #947460Torah613TorahParticipant
Daven, then relax – it only takes one! And make sure you network.October 10, 2012 8:22 pm at 8:22 pm #947461twistedParticipant
and lets not forget the ‘dancing in the vineyards” method, that was so successful that Tu b’Av and Yom Kippur were noted for the joy of multiple matches.October 10, 2012 9:49 pm at 9:49 pm #947462avhabenParticipant
Twisted: Chazal discontinued that method for very good reason.October 10, 2012 10:42 pm at 10:42 pm #947464
TLKY: Okay, but the discussion of the relative merits and lack thereof of different Jewish communities is really irrelevant. The point is that the people the people who choose not live that way cannot feasibly adopt such a shidduch system.October 30, 2012 11:34 pm at 11:34 pm #947465WiseyParticipant
Keep in mind that being b’simchah on a date is a big plus and even in general if people know you as a happy girl the word will spread.
P.S. I realize that this is especially difficult in your situation. Hatzlacha!!!!!!October 31, 2012 1:24 am at 1:24 am #947466postsemgirlMember
Oh boy I have so much to say so much to say.
I think I will keep my mouth shut on this one…..October 31, 2012 4:11 am at 4:11 am #947467
@GetAClue… as i guy who is currently dating .. i have to be honest . i had always been of the type not to ask for a picture .. but as previous posters mentioned just b/c a girl is attractive/good looking in one person’s eyes doesnt mean its the same view for the person looking to date … so to save myself the dating a girl who doesnt even fit certain “criteria” i have started to request a picture .. it may save u time in the long run .. Are u looking for a guy who is learning/working or full-time learning?October 31, 2012 8:02 pm at 8:02 pm #947468
I agree with hockey_fan. I’m in a similar position, but even more difficult because I live way OOT, and I would have to fly in for every date. It is an objectively STUPID move to spend hundreds or even thousands of dollars on travel to go on a blind first date with a person who you may find physically unattractive. There are never any guarantees, but for many people – particularly ones in my position – it is best to clear up whatever factors one can, before committing to fly in for a first date. Assuming that every guy that wants to see a picture is doing so for ulterior or even malicious reasons is overly judgmental and is not giving any benefit of the doubt.October 31, 2012 9:20 pm at 9:20 pm #947469interjectionParticipant
I would never have sent a picture. I would have preferred celibacy to giving a picture of myself to a guy. My husband was actually a guy who did always insist on seeing pictures first yet by me he didn’t ask…go figure.
And I apologize if what I said before came out offensive. I meant to clarify the question but I have read it again and I realize it came out sounding supremely negative and judgmental. Sorry.November 5, 2012 3:26 am at 3:26 am #947470November 5, 2012 5:11 am at 5:11 am #947471Da Hollyvooda RebbaMember
Its very important in life not to question God. He knows how to run this world.November 5, 2012 5:20 am at 5:20 am #947472
@ hockey fan, learning working guy. Still really not in to the picture. To me it just seems like selling yourself cheap.November 5, 2012 5:25 am at 5:25 am #947473
And why is it that the guys are so afraid of going out with a girl who is gd forbid not stunning.its one date, that’s it. Plus it’s not like the guys who are asking for pictures are that great looking themselves.November 5, 2012 10:51 am at 10:51 am #947474
@getaclue. b/c many of those dates that are”only one date”. add up to alot of $$ and depression/sadness because they dont see themselves going on 2nd dates with those girls
and why do think i am selling myself cheap?
learning/working .. which is more important to you? one very hard thing to understand abt girls these days . do you want him having a job and learning when he has time (or other way around?)November 5, 2012 6:52 pm at 6:52 pm #947475
Hockeyfan… BOTH! obviously! No joke… I’ve seen some girls’ resumes say they want a full time learner who can go out and work when necessary. In this economy!? Are you joking!? Who is going to hire him with no college degree, no expertise, and no prior work experience? Pick one or the other ladies! You can’t have both.November 6, 2012 12:58 am at 12:58 am #947476
Agreed.. But when do they want their husband getting that degree.. When hes younger or has has a family with 2/3/4 kids and is struggling to make ends meet because the kollel he was in can longer guarantee his monthly stipendNovember 6, 2012 4:02 am at 4:02 am #947477
@ hockey fan: x to get to off topic but did it ever Occur to you That maybe you can like a girl who is not beautiful by ALLS standereds? Who knows, maybe youll Fall for her great personality?! (novel conccept….)By selling yourself cheap I meant I feel as if I’m selling myself cheap by providing a picture.To address your other question, I cannot speak for all girls but as far as myself I am looking for a guy who is working/ in college however learning is extremely important to him. Not sure what all the drama was about….November 6, 2012 5:58 am at 5:58 am #947478
different strokes for different folksNovember 7, 2012 10:00 pm at 10:00 pm #947479snowbunny3318Member
Hockey fan and get a clue sound like the perfect shidduch… You two have really different opinions, but you seem to really respect them…November 7, 2012 11:49 pm at 11:49 pm #947480
@Getaclue. it is very possible that could happen. this brings me to another point abt shadchanim. Most shadchanim these days dont truly know the guy/girl that they are trying to help. yes they may have met them once in person(if even that happens these days) but if they havent how do they know the “type” of people they are setting up. by providing a picture it can describe alot about a person that a resume or a phone call sometimes cannot.
i have been working with a shadchan for awhile who never asked me for a picture , yet recently i was in contact with a couple other shadchanim who said that they would not even look at my resume w/o adding a picture ( and yes i will admit self-portraits are not my favorite thing in the world) but if i wanted to “expand” i had to come to the realization that i either jump in with both feet (give a picture) or sit on the side(withhold the picture)
I am not trying to say that you should/have to give a picture but it could possibly increase your chances of iy”h getting more yes’s because yes unfortunately guys are into looks and realize that they have to live with this girl for the rest of their life.
hatzlacha on your dating endeavors and may we all find our husband/wifeNovember 8, 2012 1:21 am at 1:21 am #947481keepingbusy613Member
Hi everyone! I’d like to chime in with my 2 cents about the above topic: Im 21, in shidduchim, and have to agree with hockey_fan. When people come over to me and ask, “learning or working”, I telling them, sorry if you want a one word answer, I cannot talk to you. Because you know what? I’m not looking for a job title and I’m not looking for a Yeshiva, I’m looking for a person! Lemme hear about the person, and whatever way he is best serving Hashem, then perfect!November 8, 2012 2:04 am at 2:04 am #947482syeshivaMember
As chazal say, “Knei Licha Chaver”.
The only way to get a good shidduch is buy them off.
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