Shiva question

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  • #617656

    adocs
    Participant

    I’m aware of a family that unfortunately suffered a loss over Pesach. In such a situation, (as far as I know) where the burial was on chol hamoed, the shiva ends fri morning. This is because yom tov sheini (shabbos this year) is day 1, making Friday day 7. Yet information I have seen or received regarding this particular family is saying that they’re getting up on thurs morning. Is this a mistake? Or is there some factor I’m not aware of that would make this possible?

    #1150819

    approach your LOR & ask him

    i cannot be your LOR on this topic

    May the neshama have an Aliya

    #1150820

    adocs
    Participant

    M.A.

    I don’t think you understood my question. I’m not looking for a psak, therefore telling me to ask my LOR is not relevant.

    I’m just asking if someone may know of a possibility (or Halacha) that I may not have considered or been aware of.

    #1150821

    apushatayid
    Participant

    Im pretty sure Yom Tov stops shiva only if it began prior to yom tov. If someone passes away and is buried on yom tov or chol hamoed, shiva doesnt start until after yom tov (I think in chutz laaretz the “second day” counts as day 1 of shiva, but not 100% certain.

    #1150822

    Chaimy
    Participant

    Maybe if the person is from Eretz Yisroel, Yom Tov ended Friday, only seven days, than avolus should start on Shabbos even if they don’t sit that day.

    #1150823

    adocs
    Participant

    apushatayid

    I clearly wrote (I think) that the loss occurred on Pesach so this is not a case of yom tov stopping a shiva that had already started.

    Chaimy

    Being from eretz Yisroel should not be relevant to this case, because 7th day is yom tov for everybody, while the day after is nothing for an Israeli resident (and would be day 1 of shiva) and yom tov sheini for a chutznik (but treated as day 1 of shiva anyway)

    #1150824

    apushatayid
    Participant

    then shiva starts after yom tov. im also pretty sure I wrote that yom tov stops shiva if the shiva started prior to yom tov. in this case it didnt. I am uncertain if yom tov sheini shel galus is counted as 1st day of shiva or if isru chag counts as day 1.

    #1150825

    adocs
    Participant

    apushatayid

    I wasn’t asking when shiva starts. I know it starts after yom tov.

    I wasn’t asking which is the first day. I know that yom tov sheini is day 1 of shiva.

    I’m asking if anyone knows of a possible reason why a shiva that started after yomtov would end on thurs morning.

    #1150826

    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    its a good question. the two families here that are sitting are sitting until Friday morning.

    #1150827

    apushatayid
    Participant

    Perhaps they are sitting until Friday morning, but are leaving the location where they currently are, and sitting elsewhere till Friday morning. The sign says they are getting up from shiva thirsday morning or does it say they are sitting shiva at locaiton x until thursday morning?

    #1150828

    adocs
    Participant

    I was going to respond that both an email and a website posting said they are getting up Thursday morning.

    But I went back to check the site and it was changed to Friday morning. So original info was just a mistake or typo.

    So this whole discussion is moot.

    #1150829

    oomis
    Participant

    If I am understanding your question, and I may be misunderstanding, this is what it is done. When someone is niftar R”L on yom tov or chol hamoed, the kevurah itself is as soon as possible, but the SHIVA BEGINS AS SOON AS THE ENTIRE YOM TOV is over. I just paid such a shiva call. The father was niftar and buried just before the second days of Pesach. The family went through yom tov and immediately began sitting shiva on Motzai Shabbos, which was the end of Pesach. If however, someone is niftar and buried even the morning of erev the first days of a long yom tov like Pesach or ANY erev yom tov, before licht benschen, then they sit shiva for only a portion of the day, and the shiva is over completely as of candlelighting.In that case, the yom tov takes over the entire Shiva. BUT NOT when the person is niftar on the actual yom tov or chol hamoed. Even if on the first day, they have to go through the whole yom tov and first begin a full shiva as of Isru Chag. I have paid shiva calls in each of these types of cases. Fortunately they have been rare in my community.

    #1150830

    adocs
    Participant

    oomis

    I was not asking about the shiva procedure for a death right before or on yom tov. I was aware of the different possibilities.

    you misunderstood my question ( which is now moot because it was based on a mistake which was corrected)

    #1150831

    oomis
    Participant

    OK. No problem. I am glad the typo was discovered. Auf simchas!

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