Shliach Tzibbur Whose Not Counting Sefira With a Bracha
- This topic has 10 replies, 6 voices, and was last updated 11 years, 1 month ago by haifagirl.
April 30, 2012 1:25 am at 1:25 am #603173avhabenParticipant
A few years ago I was davening for the amud during Sefira. I had missed an earlier day, so wasn’t counting with a bracha. So after Aleinu I sheepishly looked around to find someone to ask to make the bracha for the tzibbur. But I couldn’t meet someone’s eye to ask, and I’m not exactly the most extroverted guy. So I stumbingly made the bracha and said the Omer.
As you see, I still regretfully recall this incident a number of years later. Did I ruin it for the tzibbur that awful day a number of years ago?April 30, 2012 2:20 am at 2:20 am #872601HarotzehbilumshmoParticipant
Here is the only way that i can see a problem. There is a machlokes acharonim as follows. The bais Halevey holds that if the sheliach tzibur (actually his case was the rav) missed a night and can’t count with a brocho he can save face with the following trick. he can ask someone in the tzibur not to make a brocho and he can me motzei that person. Others argue. The root of their argument is as to how we view a person who missed a night. Do we say that he is still obligated in the mitzvoh, just aht he has no way to be makayim it, in which case we apply the rule of arvus and he can be motei someone else. Or do we say that once he missed a night he is no longer a metzuvah bedavar and therefore can not be motzei someone else. If one holds like the second then you would not have been able to be motzei someone else. If, and generally this is not the case, someone in the tzibur was being yotzeh either the berocho or the sefira (which he should not have done) with you, he would not be yotzeiApril 30, 2012 2:24 am at 2:24 am #872602
Harotzeh: Chas V’shalom to say that someone who missed a day has no Mitzvah anymore. We just don’t make a Bracha to respect the opinion of the Bahag. It’s because of statements like yours that some Poskim nowadays say that one should count with a Bracha even if he misses a day-because if you tell someone not to make a Bracha he’ll think there’s no Mitzvah and won’t count at all.April 30, 2012 3:29 am at 3:29 am #872603HarotzehbilumshmoParticipant
Sam2: I should have included that, my mistake. Thank you. The machlokes the Bais Halevey and the other acharonim are going according to our minhag to be choshesh for the bahag as far as the brocho is concerned(safek brachos l’hakel). Their disagreement is according to the bahag, is one considered a aino metzuveh bdovor. As such that would be the possibility I meant in y response. It was not meant as a real halachic concern, rather the one possibility that I could think of. BTW, who are the poskim that say to count with a brocho?April 30, 2012 4:56 am at 4:56 am #872604
I don’t remember. The idea is brought down in the Sh’arim Metzuyanim B’halachah.May 6, 2012 5:05 pm at 5:05 pm #872605147Participant
The Chazzon mentioned to me that he shall be flying from Australia to the USA this week, so is 1 day ahead, so he doesn’t know if he can count in the USA with a Berocho? But doesn’t want to jeopardize his Chazzonus job, so what should this Chazzon do?May 6, 2012 5:30 pm at 5:30 pm #872606
147: Flying from Australia to the US is much, much easier to deal with than vice versa. Besides, Pashtus is that R’ Tzvi Pesach Frank is correct (though almost no one nowadays is on a Madrega to be Machria that Machlokes).May 7, 2012 7:31 am at 7:31 am #872607haifagirlParticipant
Okay. This thread has been making me crazy for a week. Can one of the mods please change “whose” to “who’s”?May 7, 2012 2:32 pm at 2:32 pm #872608ZeesKiteParticipant
lol haifagirl, I saw your (you’re) name in the main screen on this topic, I rushed to see what opinion you’d (youd) give in this halachik topic…
btw: How are they supposed to know when you’re (your) on the prowl?May 7, 2012 2:47 pm at 2:47 pm #872609avhabenParticipant
C’mon, Haifa Woman (fixed grammar and spacing): I can understand your complaints when there’s no punctuation at all or a gross abuse of grammar. But you really go crazy over a minor grammatical issue when the intent of the author is abundantly clear despite the error? On an online board, no less, not an official English composition. The issue is with the complainant, I must regretfully conclude, not with the author.May 7, 2012 8:03 pm at 8:03 pm #872610haifagirlParticipant
There is a world of difference between “whose” and “who’s.”
I can understand your complaints when there’s no punctuation at all
There is no punctuation at all in the title.
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