January 13, 2012 6:28 pm at 6:28 pm #849529artchillParticipant
Call a spade a spade! These are direct quotes from the book:
Encouraging fellow Jews to EMBRACE J—??? J— the patriot was a mamzer and apikorus but this “Rabbi” wants Jews to EMBRACE J— like he’s some saintly hero???
This doesn’t represent Orthodox Jewish beliefs.January 15, 2012 12:05 am at 12:05 am #849530Derech HaMelechMember
What Gemara? The nonexistant one that got edited out of the middle of Sanhedrin (maybe Gittin?) that to be factual as the way we have it would mean that Yushka lived over 150 years?
That is one possibility. Another is that the first author of the ‘nt’, wrote his book not 40 years after yoshke’s death but ~80 years after. Meaning that the Gemarah is right and the ‘nt’ is wrong.
There is evidence for this. For instance, an early church father named Epiphaneius also puts yoshke during the time of Yannai. There is a manuscript called Toldos Yeshu that Rashi quotes from. Although there are many different versions of this text today, certain elements can be found in them all, including this time earlier time frame.January 15, 2012 5:22 am at 5:22 am #849531HaLeiViParticipant
Also, the Ramban mentioned in his debate that we hold he was 200 years before the Churban and they hold he was 70 years before the Churban.January 15, 2012 4:39 pm at 4:39 pm #8495322scentsParticipant
Does anyone know why his talk show on ABC went off the air?
Not that I am interested in his shows. I Cringed when he said some stuff. I am just curious.
ThanksJanuary 16, 2012 4:22 pm at 4:22 pm #849533BTGuyParticipant
A large bookseller said the book is not out until February.
Is it possible those quotes were put in by various online booksellers as to their estimation of what the book is about and not part of the text of the actual book?
Just curious.January 16, 2012 10:45 pm at 10:45 pm #849534feivelParticipant
i believe those are quotes of rabbi boteachs response to rabbi wolfs letter criticizing him.
not excerpts from the bookJanuary 17, 2012 5:03 am at 5:03 am #849535Bye Bye BasketMember
Poor Shmuley, he bites his own fingers and wants to do a better job. He lost my account.January 17, 2012 10:03 am at 10:03 am #849536
Is that indeed what he wrote? (@feivel, if he wrote them in a letter, that doesn’t make any difference.)
If that is what he believes, then the only place he belongs in is a church, as a pastor.January 17, 2012 12:12 pm at 12:12 pm #849537irMember
BT guy –
actually the gemara does discuss him, and does describe him as one with a faulty character, if not an apikores. He was expelled from one of the yeshivas of the time for his faulty character, as demonstrated by his having looked at a women’s eyes, and then commenting on them, which at that time was not done by anyone. I have to check on the apikorsus, but I’m pretty sure that he is branded as one even in the gemara. In such a case, the laws of loshon horah do not apply.January 17, 2012 5:09 pm at 5:09 pm #849538HaLeiViParticipant
I would imagine that bowing to the nearest brick would consitute Apikursus. But, don’t don’t get me wrong. He’s a great guy, as per the Gemara in Hanizaken: Re’u Ma Bein Posh’ei Yisroel Libein Nevi’ei Umos Haolam.January 17, 2012 5:28 pm at 5:28 pm #849539BTGuyParticipant
Thank you for addressing that. Most of what I needed to know on the subject I got from the book, The Real Messiah, by Rabbi Aryeh Kaplan.
I would be very surprised if Shmuely Boteach would reach so far as to hold to views of embracing yushke.
While he is not on my list of concerns, I did have a pleasant view of him and how he brought out his Jewishness in his public persona and career.February 5, 2012 5:23 pm at 5:23 pm #849540popa_bar_abbaParticipant
Bumped for the Creedmoore Rov’s benefit.
I will now repeat the post I made on this thread:
This idiot was always a non-entity, and continues to be so. I didn’t read the book; I haven’t read his other books; I don’t intend to read his books. He is as irrelevant as NASI.February 5, 2012 5:41 pm at 5:41 pm #849541oomisParticipant
I know neither enough about Jesus OR R’ Boteach to comment from a place of real undesrstanding, BUT… what I always was taught was that in his day, he never declared himself to be son of any god, nor did he try to start a changed religion. It was Paul who made the big changes that formed early christianity, and all the books of the so-called New T. were written decades after Jesus lived, and even those gospels record the story with changes. they cannot agree on details among themselves. So if they cannot remember something that happened maybe fifty years prior, why would I believe anything that they quote in his name?
I am not saying he was a good Jew, or a Pharisee, or not an Apikorus, or anything, because I really do not know. What I do know is that more destruction to the Jewish people occurred in his name, than for any other reason. He might have been an innocent bystander – according to the Talmud however, he was guilty and chayav misah (from what I have been told, as I never learned this type of stuff). So that being the case, Perhaps people like R’ Boteach should seek to write about something less likely to cause this type of uproar.February 5, 2012 7:23 pm at 7:23 pm #849542
and see what this is all about. He is turning his mansion in Englewood into a tax-exempt Creedmoorer shtibl.
Kosher Arms Dealing
Kosher AhmadinejadFebruary 5, 2012 8:06 pm at 8:06 pm #849543
He writes ONLY to cause an uproar.
He is basically an Internet troll wrought large. Nothing more, nothing less.
He came just short of endorsing maaseh Onan in one of his bathroom books.
On Gimmel Tammuz the year Jackson croaked, he was in Jamaica having fun – he could care less for Chabad or Jackson. Once he found out his plastic friend peygered, he saw the money so he wrote a fast article about Jackson. Last year, his daughter was about to get married (to the son of another character who was thrown out of Chabad shlichus for lowering standards and worst of all, because he got his name in the WSJ for laundering funds for Diamond Joe Gutnick), so Boteach started to show up at Chabad functions and promise naive shluchim access to bigwigs in exchange for photo-ops. It worked; some of us were scared he would be given a position in PR or fundraising for Chabad headquarters.
Fortunately, Rav Shochet, who is both academically and rabbinically qualified to speak about yoshke, put Kosher Yoshke in cherem, which means Boteach will not be able to show his sorry face in the official Chabad world again.
Yoshke is NOT someone we look up to. Period. Notzrim respect us when we are ourselves, not when we try to be like them. Boteach’s father is from Iran; let him write a book called Kosher Mohammed and see what happens when he tries to sell it there!February 6, 2012 3:39 pm at 3:39 pm #849544enlightenedjewMember
I don’t get it – how can you condemn a book without reading the work that you are condemning?? I personally find R’ Boteach’s “media showboating” a little nauseating. But I’ve found that, once you get past the screaming headline of a title, he has a lot of positive and VALID things to say. I have read all of his books until now and am in the middle of the one in question here, and I;ve found my observation above to be pretty consistent.
His argument in “Kosher Jesus” is nothing new, BTW.February 6, 2012 5:30 pm at 5:30 pm #849545
His problem is when he says that we should respect yoshke because the notzrim leave us alone. Do we respect kishka, lokshenmi, vishniak or any of the other Hindu getschkes because the Indians are not anti-Semites? Boteach probably finds some wisdom in budhuism, as do all of the new age freaks, but regardless of how well Jews get along with budhuists, budhu is a getschke and not for us.
He has nothing valid to say. The book has been condemned by someone who knows far more about the subject than any of us and Boteach know together. Boteach just regurgitated someone else’s work and added his opinion.
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