Shnayim Mikra

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  • #599952

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    I finally isolated why I hate shnayim mikra. After years of hating and dreading it, I finally figured out why.

    It is like building Pisom and Raamses! Every time you finish, it just gets knocked back down and you have to start again!

    When you finish a project for school or work and start a new one, you have finished something, and are starting a new thing. With shnayim mikra and pisom and raamses, you are literally redoing the exact same thing! You rush to finish by simchas torah, take a deep breath, and instead of being able to feel accomplished, you have the whole thing handed back to you to do again!

    Unbelievable!

    #817762

    midwesterner
    Participant

    A gutten moed Popa!!

    I HATE eating! I have a nutritious breakfast. Then comes lunch. maybe a mid-afternoon snack. Then the wife makes a great supper. Then perhaps a bit of nosh late evening. Then I get up in the morning, and I have to do it ALL AGAIN!

    Unbelievable!!

    #817763

    whatshaiches
    Member

    Do you feel the same about daf yomi or anything else that you have to learn twice? What about every shabbos, is that hard for you as well?

    #817764

    yashrus20
    Member

    Try to go through rashi and some mifarshim after. So that the shnaim mikrah is just to remind you of the pasukim so you can go deeper. And it will make it more gishmak, and when you finish all the mifarshim..come back…i want a brocha.

    #817765

    bezalel
    Participant

    After 3 days, this is the best you can come up with?

    #817766

    BaalHabooze
    Participant

    popa, first of all thanks for the “neutral” title. Secondly, i thought you were going to say how u always try to do it and then it stops somewhere at the end of Shemos or some thing like that. I can’t EVER do it past V’Yigash or V’Yechi. I think that was the furthest I ever got. I can never put it into my schedule and need an eitza. I think my problem was I left the chunk of the parsha for Shabbos, and with the short winter shabbos afternoons….

    in any case I hear what your saying….

    #817767

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    popa, first of all thanks for the “neutral” title.

    Yes, I refrained from calling it “the worst mitzva”.

    After 3 days, this is the best you can come up with?

    Yes.

    I HATE eating!

    Right about now, I think I do also.

    #817768

    2scents
    Participant

    By doing shnayim mikrah your actually fulfilling a mitzvah, which is equal to finnishing one project and starting a new one.

    #817769

    Sam2
    Participant

    2scents: A Mitzvah? What Mitzvah would that be? (Assuming you would spend the time learning something else.)

    #817770

    MDG
    Participant

    In less than a week we will be reading Parahsat Breisheet.

    Start learning Shnayim Mikra NOW so you don’t get behind.

    #817771

    Dr. Seuss
    Member

    Sam: Isn’t it in Shulchan Aruch? Isn’t following S”A a mitzvah?

    #817772

    2scents
    Participant

    Its a gemara and halacha. Which makes it a mitzvah.

    Its not one of the taryag mitzvos, however its a halacha. No doubt that there is schar mitzvah involved.

    #817773

    Sam2
    Participant

    We need to be very careful when defining are terms. Calling things that aren’t really a Mitzvah a “Mitzvah” can lead to serious problems. People should get into the habit of using precise terms. Once again, what it the “Mitzvah” of following the Shulchan Aruch?

    And the Gemara (Brachos 8b I think) says that someone who does Shnayim Mikra gets long life. From there the Shulchan Aruch realizes it’s a good thing and brings down to do it. So we have to understand exactly what type of obligation that entails. Just shrugging everything off as a “Mitzvah” does not do justice to any Halachos, whether they are D’Orasia, D’Rabannan, Minhag, Hanhaga, or an Eitza Tova.

    #817774

    Bar Shattya
    Member

    Anything that is good to do is a mitzvah (The other choice is an aveira)

    #817775

    Sam2
    Participant

    To the edit for MDG’s post: You cannot start learning Bereishis now. You cannot be Yotzei Shnayim Mikra for Bereishis until after we lein Vezos Habracha on Friday (Thursday for those who live in Eretz Yisrael).

    #817776

    2scents
    Participant

    Sam2, to be exact. The shulchan aruch uses the word Chayiv. Which means obligated.

    I think its daf 40

    #817777

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    A Mitzvah? What Mitzvah would that be? (Assuming you would spend the time learning something else.)

    Sam: I have no idea what you are getting at. Doing shnayim mikra is a chiyuv, as stated in OC 285:1. I think we can classify fulfilling one’s chiyuvim as a “mitzva”.

    #817778

    Sam2
    Participant

    I am not saying at all that you are not obligated to learn Shanyim Mikra. I am just pointing out that we need to be very careful with our terms and that “Mitzvah” is an inappropriate term in this case.

    #817779

    Bar Shattya
    Member

    I don’t eat matzah on pesach because to me it doesn’t sound like a mitzvah

    #817780

    2scents
    Participant

    Assuming that you are not questioning the shulchan aruch, there is a chiyuv involved.

    Your question was, what is the mitzvah of following the Shulchan Aruch.

    Even if this chiyuv has been created by the SA, there would be the mitzvah of listening to our sages, as are with all mitzvos drabanan.

    #817781

    Sam2
    Participant

    So you are saying that anything the Shulchan Aruch says creates a Mitzvah D’Rabannan? Wow. I don’t even know where to start on that. I know they tried to reinstitute Smichah with him but I didn’t know that they succeeded in reaching the level of Chazal.

    #817782

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    Sam:

    Why don’t you tell us where you are going with this?

    Why do you think the term “mitzva” has some hallowed attribute that it can only be used for d’oraisoh’s or certain d’rabbanan’s, or whatever you are trying to limit it to?

    What are you trying to say?

    #817783

    Sam2
    Participant

    People should be much more careful when using terms. Otherwise you end up with people like the one who I met who thinks that wearing a Kippah is borderline Yeihareg V’al Ya’avor. When I called him crazy he proceeded to give me a whole long Shpiel about why Kippah is so special that we can’t make a Bracha on it. He honestly thought wearing a Kippah is an Asei D’Oraisa. When you lump everything together under the umbrella of “Mitzvah” you overvalue some things and devalue everything else.

    #817784

    2scents
    Participant

    No, that’s not what I said or was trying to imply.

    only that the SA calls it a chiyuv, the SA didn’t ‘create’ the chiyuv. It goes back all the way to the gemara.

    FYI the reshonim use the word chiyuv as well as MITZVAH.

    #817785

    NYBD
    Member

    2scents & P_b_a: ditto

    #817786

    velvelwolf
    Participant

    ????? ?:?-?

    ???? ?????? ???? ??? ???? ???? ???? ?? ????. ?????? ????? ????? ?? ????? ????? ?????? ???? ?????? ??????

    ????? ?:?

    ?? ???? ??? ????? ??? ???? “????? ?? ???? ?????” ???? ???? ????? ??? ????? ?? ?? ?? ????? ?? ???? ??? ?????

    ???? ??? ?:?

    ??? ????? ???? ??? ????.

    ???? , ????????, ???????, ??????? ?????, “?????? ????”. ??? ????? ???? ???? ??????? ????? ??? ????? ???? ?? ????? ???. ???? ?? ??? , ??????? ?????, ????? ???? ??? ??? ????? “?????? ???? ???? ???”

    Thanks to google. It’s pretty clear that learning is a mitzvah.

    Moadim L’simcha!

    #817787

    Abelleh
    Participant

    Sam2 is correct according to the Rambam, Ramban, Minchas Chinuch, and most other Rishonim. Classifying something as a “mitzvah” is a dangerous business, and the Rambam wrote several shorashim on them. To be mlamed zchus to those who think shanim mikrah is a mitzvah, the Bihag does classify various d’rabbanans as mitzvos (though I am nearly sure he did not include shnaim mikrah) in his hakdama to the Bihag, so at least there is some Rishon (though the Rambam and Ramban in shoresh sheni in Sefer Hamitzvos both attack him for doing so) that thinks dirabbanans can be classified as a mitzvah.

    #817788

    usa-tralian
    Participant

    There’s a remez for shnayim mikra – V’Eileh Shmos is Roshei Teivos – Vechayov Odom Likros Haparsha Shnayim Mikra V’echod Targum ????? ??? ????? ????? ???? ???? ???? ?????

    #817789

    ItcheSrulik
    Member

    Sam2: If you want to stretch things I suppose you can say it’s al pi hatorah asher yorucha”

    #817790

    2scents
    Participant

    The Mordche uses the word Mitzvah for shnayim mikrah.

    So yes, it is a chiyuv. As per the reshonim and poskim.

    It is a mitzvah, as per the Mordche.

    And no, its not some minhag which was created by the shulchan aruch, has a mekor in gemarah and in midrash as well.

    #817791

    Sam2
    Participant

    I never claimed it was just “some Minhag” or that there is any P’tur from doing it (though I believe the Ra’avan says it’s not a Chiyuv). Everyone is obligated to learn Shnayim Mikrah. What I was taking issue with was calling it a “Mitzvah”. And I will B”N look at the Mordechai.

    #817792

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    Anything that is good to do is a mitzvah (The other choice is an aveira)

    You missed one – the third choice, which is neither a mitzvah nor an aveira. (This is known as the fallacy of the excluded middle).

    For example, the choice between eating a tuna fish sandwich or a peanut butter and jelly sandwich. It’s my option which to choose and neither choice is a mitzvah nor an aveira.

    The Wolf

    #817793

    Bar Shattya
    Member

    You missed one – the third choice, which is neither a mitzvah nor an aveira. (This is known as the fallacy of the excluded middle).

    For example, the choice between eating a tuna fish sandwich or a peanut butter and jelly sandwich. It’s my option which to choose and neither choice is a mitzvah nor an aveira.

    The Wolf

    Not according to the chovos halevovos (tuna fish is probably healthier, unless yo had a couple that week, but jelly is all sugar so I’d still probably go with the tuna)

    #817794

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    Not according to the chovos halevovos (tuna fish is probably healthier, unless yo had a couple that week, but jelly is all sugar so I’d still probably go with the tuna)

    Oh well, so I was wrong. I guess according to the Chovos HaLevovos that’s another aveira on my part. Well, compared to the blatent chillul Shabbos, Mesira, Bizui HaChag and other acts I do, this one is really minor.

    The Wolf

    #817795

    2scents
    Participant

    I don’t know if you were just mocking the chovos halvovos or just trying to be funny.

    However the chovos halvovos was a Rishon. A bit of respect!

    #817796

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    I don’t know if you were just mocking the chovos halvovos or just trying to be funny.

    However the chovos halvovos was a Rishon. A bit of respect!

    Once again, the fallacy of the excluded middle pops up in this thread. I was not mocking, nor was I trying to be funny. I was being 100% serious. If someone who is M’vazeh Yom Tov, M’challel Shabbos, Moser and an Oved Avodas Cochavim* (as I am), the sin of not knowing the Chovos HaLevovos off the top of my head is rather minor in comparison.

    But if you want to say that I was mocking a Talmid Chochom, fine, whatever. I don’t want to argue the point, so I’ll concede it (even though it’s not the truth).

    The Wolf

    * Mechallel Shabbos — one is not allowed to be sad on Shabbos. I violate that on a regular basis. Ditto for the mitzvah of Simchas Yom Tov. I am a moser because I called the cops on someone’s car when the alarm would not stop in the middle of the night. I am also an idolator because I take pictures of the sun — all of these (with the exception of Yom Tov) were discussed on these boards earlier.

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