October 14, 2013 11:05 am at 11:05 am #610887ghj613Member
Someone was ranting to me today about how my shockelling is disturbing him during davening. Should I sacrifice my concentration for his and stop shockelling?October 14, 2013 2:32 pm at 2:32 pm #978849Oh Shreck!Participant
And I thought this is another “shocking” thread.
Does your shokeling inspire your concentration? Why should it be a sacrifice?October 14, 2013 2:44 pm at 2:44 pm #978850WIYMember
You need to have shikul hadaas when shukeling.October 14, 2013 3:00 pm at 3:00 pm #978851FerdParticipant
Use a cattle-prod during davening., That will get everyone shockellingquickly.October 14, 2013 3:22 pm at 3:22 pm #978852Bookworm120Participant
@Ferd – Only if you’re wearing a black and white tallis, the colors of a cow. I’ve seen some more colorful variants, like blue and white, and they weren’t being worn by “rabbits” (my term for so-called “rabbahs”).
Personally, ghj613, my suggestion is, if it helps your concentration but hurts his, perhaps you could try toning down your shockeling a little bit. He’ll see that you’re making a concerted effort to accommodate his preference.
Don’t worry, I’m on your side here.October 14, 2013 3:50 pm at 3:50 pm #978853oomisParticipant
You have to ask yourself are you shokeling because it inspires you, or because you think it makes you look somehow more frum to someone watching you daven? Be honest. If you really need to shokel in order to daven better, and it is to such an extent that it bothers someone else who can now not concentrate on his own davening, then it is too much, and you should daven somewhere way in the back where you are less likely to bother others. Look for a quiet space, and shokel away. I give the same advice to someone who davens too loudly, which can be distracting to other mispallelim. Your kavanah cannot come on someone else’s cheshbon.October 14, 2013 4:28 pm at 4:28 pm #978854RedlegParticipant
Short answer to the OP: Yes. Zai nisht frum af yenne’s cheshbon.October 14, 2013 4:30 pm at 4:30 pm #978855LevAryehMember
See Mishnah Berurah 48:5 for a discussion on whether or not one should shuckel.October 14, 2013 4:51 pm at 4:51 pm #978856streekgeekParticipant
I remember hearing once that our souls are compared to a candle (ner Hashem nishmas adam. A flame is always flickering and swaying while reaching upwards. So too, when we do something spiritual, our soul is feeling it and our body sways in reaction.October 15, 2013 3:37 am at 3:37 am #978857oomisParticipant
When it is bothersome to another person, then it probably is being done a little TOO forcefully. Shokeling doesn’t bother me, but when someone looks like he is about to launch into outer space, he is moving too much.October 15, 2013 4:23 am at 4:23 am #978858midwesternerParticipant
I frequently tell my two youngest children, “Plonis: Stop bothering Almonis. And Almonis: Stop being bothered by Plonis!”
FLEXIBILITY is the key!!October 15, 2013 2:37 pm at 2:37 pm #978859twistedParticipant
It is said about Rabi Akiva that he would begin davening in one corner of a bais medrash, and finish in the opposite corner, but when shaliach tzibbur, he did not do this, meaning, one’s kavana should not be dependent on anything. I, personally don;t shukel, as my rebbi did not, and he described his rebbi davening as “a shtekel holtz”. For concentration exercise, I sometimes daven in Sfardi bet knesset, where there is a constant chatter from the shatz. This helps me, I cannot be disturbed by “other chatter” or. someone’s shukeling. Air raid sirens are still a problem, but not a big one.October 15, 2013 3:18 pm at 3:18 pm #978860WolfishMusingsParticipant
I don’t understand.
When it comes to shukling, it’s not okay to disturb your neighbor, but when I complained about someone too loud right next to me (and not even davening the part that the tzibbur was up to), I was told I have no right to be upset at him and that he was in the right even if it meant that I couldn’t daven properly.
The WolfOctober 15, 2013 5:10 pm at 5:10 pm #978861WIYMember
I didnt know people actually use plonis and almonis as names. Are they both girls?October 15, 2013 5:53 pm at 5:53 pm #978862RedlegParticipant
Wolfie, I have had the same experience. I explained to the individual in question that what we were doing was called tefilla b’tzibur and if he wanted to carry on a private conversation, even with G-d, he should take it outside.
And that is the key point. A minyan isn’t just ten guys davening. It’s ten guys davening TOGETHER. If one man’s davening or actions farshster the davening of one of the other mispallelim, the whole minyan, the tzibur is farshtert.
Many folks don’t realize how chamur the inyan of tirchah d’tzibura is. Just to remind everyone, the reason we take out two sifrei torah on Yom Tov (three on Shabbos Chanukah, Rosh Chodesh) is because of tirchah d’tzibura. We actually mevazer and endanger a sefer torah just so the olam shouldn’t have to wait while we roll it from parsha to parsha.
GHJ, As others have have suggested, if you Shokeling is really farshtering someone eles’s davening either tone it down or go to the back of the beis medrash.October 15, 2013 6:08 pm at 6:08 pm #978863WolfishMusingsParticipant
We actually mevazer and endanger a sefer torah just so the olam shouldn’t have to wait while we roll it from parsha to parsha.
While I understand your point, I fail to see how taking out another sefer is a danger to it or is a bizui of that sefer.
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