shokling during davening
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- This topic has 15 replies, 11 voices, and was last updated 4 years, 3 months ago by akuperma.
February 12, 2019 3:39 pm at 3:39 pm #1678309msrina18Participant
can somebody please tell me where this originates from? I have davened in different shuls, and in Lubavitch I noticed the majority do not shokel by davening.February 12, 2019 5:55 pm at 5:55 pm #1678427GadolhadorahParticipant
Depends on who you ask and their mesorah. Some will explain that it is a manifestation of the trembling one would experience of standing before a king. Some have attributed the movement to the R’ Akiva about whom it was said that when davening b’yachid he would start in one corner of a room and gradually kneel/bow/shake his way to the other side. There is a chasideshe vort that shuckeling is the result of the desire of the neshama inside of every yid to escape the physical body and reunite itself with its source. The least esoteric explanation I’ve ever heard (and the most intuitive) was that in the 13th and 14th century, the practice began as a result of a shortage of Printed sedurim meaning that daveners were forced to share a large printed scroll on the ground alternatively bending over to read and moving along so the next davener could read.February 12, 2019 8:52 pm at 8:52 pm #1678451
Tefilah is avoda sh’b’lev – emotional avodah. It is difficult to remain still when being emotional. The chassidic world, specifically the Polish chassidim were exremely emotional during davening, both in body movement, clapping, crying out etc. At the time, the “Litvish” world looked at this strange and felt it was improper. Today many Litvish trace their roots to Chassidim and have adopted many Chassidic customs including the shokelling and waving hands upwards during shmonei esrei etc. (not to mention “Tzadikim pictures” on Litvish walls, which years ago Litvish would mock Chassidim over – as borderline avoda zara!). Lubavitch is more of an “intellectual” chassidus, rather than emotional chassidus. Hence minimal shokeling, outcries etc. I saw video of the Rebbe davening shmonei esrei standing perfectly still – like a servant before his Master (very moving and inspiring!).February 12, 2019 10:09 pm at 10:09 pm #1678470akupermaParticipant
Up until the invention of printing, books were expensive (e.g. a humash would cost as much as a sefer does today), and it facilitates book sharing.February 12, 2019 10:29 pm at 10:29 pm #1678477knaidlachParticipant
shokling by davening might come from נר ה’ נשמת אדם, a neshama is like a candle. a flame is not still, it shokels.
did you see me in the video? yes, I saw the Rebbe many times during davening. during shmoneh esssrei was standing still. and even the rest of davening was no shoklingFebruary 12, 2019 11:14 pm at 11:14 pm #1678482Takes2-2tangoParticipant
Would u shuckle in front of the Queen the way u shuckle during davening?
I guarentee if your answer is yes , u can bet they would quickly put a straight jacket on you and take yiu to the nearest insane asylum.February 13, 2019 12:43 am at 12:43 am #1678508👑RebYidd23Participant
What Queen?February 13, 2019 2:02 am at 2:02 am #1678512Avi KParticipant
Rambam says that one should stand at attention. This was the custom of Rav Moshe and Rav Soloveichik. The former said that he learned to do this when a NKVD interrogator put a loaded gun on the table and told him that if he moved a muscle it would be his last.February 13, 2019 11:06 am at 11:06 am #1678706Takes2-2tangoParticipant
Shokling the way most do it is more of a* rote* move rather then showing fear to god.February 13, 2019 11:07 am at 11:07 am #1678729midwesternerParticipant
Another source is Kol atzmosai tomarna . . .February 13, 2019 1:05 pm at 1:05 pm #1678808Neville ChaimBerlinParticipant
“I have davened in different shuls, and in Lubavitch I noticed the majority do not shokel by davening.”
It depends on what you consider shockling. In a Litvish Yeshiva, a lot of the bochrim flail around like crazy when they’re davening. Chassidim seem to be more tame, and also don’t take as long (contrary to what others have said here).
If you mean you’re seeing Lubavitchers standing as still as a statue, then they do not represent the majority. Most Lubavitchers daven normally, with a moderate, healthy non-drama-queen shockle.February 13, 2019 1:21 pm at 1:21 pm #1678823
based on the pasuk כל עצמותי תאמרנה ה’ מי כמוך all my bones appreciate Hashem who You are.February 13, 2019 1:35 pm at 1:35 pm #1678829
I heard a story about Reb Moshe Ztz’l that a soldier accosted him pointing his rifle on him. He was so shocked that afterwards he wanted to daven with that shock, so he stopped shokling by davening.February 13, 2019 2:01 pm at 2:01 pm #1678843
I also heard in the name of some Rebbe -that shokling should be positive (forwards and backwards) and not negative (sideways) with the whole body and not just the head.February 13, 2019 2:01 pm at 2:01 pm #1678850GadolhadorahParticipant
“In a Litvish Yeshiva, a lot of the bochrim flail around like crazy when they’re davening”
For many of these “bochrim” this may be the only cardio they get during their typical day when they are otherwise shteigingFebruary 13, 2019 2:35 pm at 2:35 pm #1678883akupermaParticipant
Up until the invention of printing, books were expensive (e.g. a humash would cost as much as a SEFER TOTAH does today), and “shokling” facilitates book sharing since several peole can use a book.
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