October 31, 2013 10:15 pm at 10:15 pm #611136GG yekkeMember
the possuk says ‘Vayigdelu hane’orim’ – ‘and they grew up’. Rashi says that they now became 13 years old and Eisav began serving Avoida Zora. On this day Avrohom died.
When Yaakov and Eisav were born Yitzchak was 60 (25:26). Since Avraham was 100 years old when Yitzchak was born, he was 160 when yaakov and Eisav were born.
Avraham was supposed to live until the age of 180 but he died 5 years early so that he wouldnt see his grandson Eisav worshiping Avoida Zora (Rashi 25:30).
If Eisav began serving Avoida Zora at 13 why didnt Avraham die at the age of 173?November 1, 2013 1:21 am at 1:21 am #984717Little FroggieParticipant
I think the correct answer is that then (13) is when he first started out. He reached his “high” when he was 15, that’s when he want on an aveira rampage.
My question is it’s quoted that the reason or excuse he went totally of (by 15) is because he saw Avraham Avinu – the biggest tzaddik – being niftar. So he went out and said ??? ??? ???? ????. Here we’re told that Avraham Avinu was niftar because of him. So if he wouldn’t have passed away Eisav wouldn’t have gone out ?????? ???. So then he wouldn’t have to be niftar. So then He wouldn’t have gone astray. So then…November 1, 2013 2:07 am at 2:07 am #984718FriendInFlatbushParticipant
See the Da’as Zekaynim (found in a Mikra’os Gedolos), where he explains that Eisav was 13 when he started avodah zara, and Yaakov was 13 when he went off to the beis medrash. He says that Eisav rebelled for 2 years while Avraham Avinu was still alive.
He also brings down the Yerushalmi who asks this question and answers that from 13 to 15, Eisav rebelled privately/bi’tzinah, but at 15 started serving avodah zara openly/bi’farhesya. It seems to be unclear if Avraham’s death spurred Eisav, or if Eisav’s open rebellion spurred Avraham’s death.November 1, 2013 3:07 am at 3:07 am #984719jewishfeminist02Member
Esav was tzayid b’piv and he tricked Yitzchak into believing he was so frum by asking him questions like “how do you take ma’aser from salt” (answer: salt doesn’t require ma’aser). Perhaps he tricked Avraham in the same way for two years, but could not have continued to conceal the truth from him.November 1, 2013 1:56 pm at 1:56 pm #984720HaLeiViParticipant
The Medrash says that Eisav figured out that there is no Din since even Avraham Avinu died.
There are three levels here. First he did Avoda Zara privately. Then, on the day of the Petira, even before he knew it, he had murdered someone and commited Arayos. This is public and would be shameful to Avraham Avinu. After hearing of the Petira he jumped ship completely, as Chazal say, he was Kofer in Techiyas Hameisim.November 1, 2013 1:57 pm at 1:57 pm #984721HaLeiViParticipant
FriendInFlatbush, thanks for those Mekoros.November 2, 2013 8:19 pm at 8:19 pm #984722GG yekkeMember
I heard an answer over Shabbos.There’s a Medrash that says After the akeida Yitzchak went to Gan Eidan to learn for two years. (Btw that’s how yitzchak knew what Gan Eidan smelt like when he smelt Yaakov) For yitzchak they weren’t counted as years as he didn’t physically live. So really when Yaakov and Eisav were born although Yitzchak was 60 Avrohom was 162. So 13 years later when Eisav started serving Avoida Zora, Avrohom was 175.November 2, 2013 11:57 pm at 11:57 pm #984723Sam2Participant
HaLeiVi: Was T’chiyas HaMeisim an Ikkar Emunah before Matan Torah?November 3, 2013 2:37 am at 2:37 am #984724147Participant
What Hebrew calendar date is the Johrzeit of Avrohom Ovinu?
What Hebrew calendar date is the Johrzeit of Yaakov Ovinu?
What Hebrew calendar date is the Johrzeit of Rivko Ieminu?
What Hebrew calendar date is the Johrzeit of Leoh Imeinu?
Note I haven’t posed the question vis a vis Rochel Imeinu, because even I know that her Johrzeit is marCheshvon 11th.
Note I haven’t posed the question vis a vis Yitchok Ovinu, because even I know that his Johrzeit is Nisson 15th 2228, exactly 400-180 years prior to Yetzias Mitzraim.
As for Soro Imeinu, I assume her Johrzeit is either Rosh haShono? or Yom Kippur? Depending on which of these 2 opinions is the date that the Akeido took place on.
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