Should I tell my manager?

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  • #619270

    Lightbrite
    Participant

    That I will not shake anyone’s hands on Friday morning?

    So I’m blessed because my manager invited me to take part in the organization’s event Friday morning where I will meet some of their clients.

    It’s an outdoor event and I don’t know what to expect really.

    I don’t know if I should email my manager tomorrow and just tell her that, Heads up, if/when I meet the clients then I won’t be shaking their hands.

    Or do I play it by ear and just either hopefully use body language or say something about how I don’t shake hands. But now that I wrote this out I think it’s better to just tell her so it doesn’t seem offensive to the clients.

    #1217046

    WinnieThePooh
    Participant

    Better to state it in advance so people are not put on the spot. But will your manager go around and tell all the clients? You probably will still end up facing someone with his hands out. If you feel uncomfortable having to tell someone in that situation, then walk around with a pack of tissues, sniffling and holding the tissues in your right hand. No one will offer you a handshake then.

    #1217047

    Nechomah
    Participant

    Can’t give advice about whether to tell manager or not, but I would suggest you keep your hands busy, a cup of coffee in one hand, clipboard or notebook (and even a pen) in your other hand. There will nothing left for the clients to shake, lest you spill your coffee on them in your haste to organize yourself, LOL! Give a big smile and apologize on the spot for not being able to shake hands.

    #1217048

    Little Froggie
    Participant

    Wear a big, noticeable bandage around one of your fingers.

    #1217050

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    Dont take advice from here, you gotta be real careful here. I dont know who you work for , or who the clients are. Some people are understanding and some are not. its just the way it is. And you dont know who you are meeting, It could be some large client who would be insulted or it could be people who are totally understanding and very respectful.

    #1217051

    mik5
    Participant

    Nechomah gave good advice. The manager is not going around to all the clients and inform them.

    #1217052

    mik5
    Participant

    My rav, who is also a doctor, was once being interviewed for a medical position and he put a cast on his right arm.

    The lady interviewer wanted to shake his hand and he said, in reference to his “cast”: “You see that I cannot shake hands.” She said: “Let me see what is wrong with your arm.” He said: “No.”

    Then she said, “If you cannot shake my hand with your right hand, shake with your left hand.” He said: “I don’t shake hands with my left hand.”

    #1217053

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    If, for some reason, you can’t tell people, just cough into your hand and don’t offer it. They won’t insist.

    #1217054

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    Just smile at them nicely and say, “I’m so sorry, but I don’t shake hands for religious reasons”. Chances are they will respect you. And if they don’t, that’s their problem.

    Also, make an extra effort to be polite and friendly, so they won’t think you are a snob.

    #1217055

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    And kol hakovod to you, LB, for even asking the question!

    #1217056

    Lightbrite
    Participant

    Thank you all for the chizuk

    #1217057

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    Just smile at them nicely and say, “I’m so sorry, but I don’t shake hands for religious reasons”. Chances are they will respect you. And if they don’t, that’s their problem.

    If they are a big client and they get insulted, then it is YOUR problem.

    Some will respect and some wont and there might be cases where you are introduced to a man and a woman together, then the “Tissue trick” doesnt work”

    #1217058

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    there might be cases where you are introduced to a man and a woman together, then the “Tissue trick” doesnt work

    Why wouldn’t it work? Don’t shake his hand either.

    #1217059

    Lightbrite
    Participant

    ???? ???!!!!! All is good. Very good. Thank YOU Hashem & Everyone 🙂

    #1217060

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    “If they are a big client and they get insulted, then it is YOUR problem.”

    No, it’s not – it’s their problem, not LB’s. She did the right thing; they did the wrong thing. They are the ones who will lost out; she will only gain.

    Hashem doesn’t punish people for doing the right thing, so she has nothing to lose by doing the right thing. Nothing bad can happen to you as a result of doing the right thing. If a client ends up being lost, either it would have happened anyhow or it will really turn out to be good for her, but nothing bad can possibly happen as a result of doing a Mitzvah.

    Someone once came to Rav Shach very upset because someone unfairly took a job that was meant for his daughter (I don’t remember the details, but apparently the other girl had done something that was assur in order to get the job).

    Rav Shach said, “You have nothing to be upset about. Your daughter was obviously not meant to have the job. Everything is from Hashem, and the other girl couldn’t have caused this to happen. On the other hand, the other girl is really stupid, because she gained nothing but an aveira, because you can’t get something that Hashem didn’t want you to have”.

    #1217061

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    DY, I think you meant “her hand”.

    #1217063

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    Hatzlacha today LB!!! Hope it works out well. Just remember that as long as you doing Hashem’s Will, you can’t go wrong.

    Hatzlacha!

    #1217064

    Lightbrite
    Participant

    Amen thanks LU!!! 🙂

    #1217065

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    There are more than one opinions on this topic and you need to decide when to use the more machmir opinion and when to use the Kula.

    When you are dealing with the outside world you need to figure this out for yourself

    The Rav Shach story is missing information, there are people who are willing to do any averiah to get an account or job , we are not talking about that

    #1217066

    Avi K
    Participant

    Lilmod, Rav Schach was speaking after the fact. We cannot know beforehand how much hishtadlut Hashem wants us to do as a condition for getting something. As there is a difference of opinion among the poskim (google “Shaking hands with the opposite gender? – Mi Yodeya”) she might want to ask her LOR – and he might want to ask her a few questions first.

    BTW,shaking with the left hand is considered offensive as handshaking originated as a way to show that one was not concealing a knife (a 2,500 year old depiction of two soldiers shaking hands can be found on part of a stele on display in the Pergamon Museum, Berlin).Perhaps “sinister” comes from the Latin word for left-handed because left-handed people naturally wanted to shake with their left hands.

    #1217068

    Little Froggie
    Participant

    ???? ???? ?? ????? ????? ??? ????. This is a passuk that even the Gentiles around us know. They realize we have a higher standard to live up to. That’s why r”l any misstep gets so publicized. We have a higher calling, it was defined in this week’s parsha. Our careers, to us, are what keeps us able to exist. But we exist for our tafkid. To be a holy people, ?? ????. And ?????? ????, a lifetime of avoda, striving, toiling, and accomplishing in areas that bring us ???? ??? ???? ???.

    While there are shitos, opinions in Halacha among the Poskim, it is not for “us to decide when to be machmir”.. And as I’ve pointed out time and again, our calling was about striving to become holier and closer to HaShem, not about how to circumvent our statures, to be always on the lookout to point out a Kula, another lenient position. If one chooses a lifestyle of Kedusha, does it really sting someone else’s eyes?!? And I have a niggling feeling that HaShem is NOT interested in THIS “hishtadlut”. Nope, he doesn’t need it. In fact He’s been at the wheel for quite and number of years, granting parnassa in spite of our “hishtadlut” or lack of thereof.

    And YES, it IS possible to deal with the outside world and still retain the same Kedusha. That’s exactly what the world looks up to us for!!! They expect us to stick to out principles, and ADMIRE us for it!!

    No, you don’t loose out by being careful in doing HaShem’s Mitzvohs. The world was created for a place to enact His commandments, He certainly provided for it.

    #1217069

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    Sometimes people admire you and sometimes they dont, it all depends what kind of people you meet. Generally those who are more religous admire you, however there are plenty of anti-relgious people out there (They are not Anti-semetic, they are against pretty much all relgions, if you were an Evangelical Christan they would not like it either) who do not.

    There is no way to know what kind of people you will meet unless it comes up in a conversation.

    For those who think they know what Hashem thinks, Do you think hashem smiles on those people who refuse to sit next to women on airplanes causing a ruckus calling it a great kiddish hashem or do you think hashem frowns on what a chillul hashem they have caused

    #1217070

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    Unless you are a direct follower of a Rav and he tells you specifically what to do in a certain circumstance, One does not have to follow the Shitta of a Rav because you think his shitta is better.

    the OP is a Baal Tshuva and appears to be going along a Chabad path, She is under no obligation to follow the Psaks of Rav Shach if Chabad has a different Shitta (I have no idea what the Chabad’s psaks are in this circumstance). If the OP wishes to follow Rav Schecter or Rav Lichtenstein, she may also do so (Again I have no idea what their Psaks are in this circumstance)

    #1217071

    nishtdayngesheft
    Participant

    ZD,

    I am going to make an observation about shaking hands from my experience and other’s who’ve I’ve talked to and I an limiting it to that topic. The issue about airplane seating has nothing to do with the OP’s question nor anyone else’s comments.

    I suspect that your insistence that “Big Clients” will be insulted is because your interaction is solely over the internet. You do internet sales.

    I have been working in an industry which involves significant face to face client interaction, including meeting with corporate officers and corporate boards.

    There has never, in my experience, been a negative response to someone who respectfully says that do not shake hands for religious purposes. And I have heard the same from my acquaintances who also work in large corporate environments.

    You will note that I said respectfully. And I am not paskening what someone should do. But it is clear that those who avoid shaking hands with the other gender are not just following a big chumra. There are many poskim who hold this is normative halacha and is ossur gomur and a kula is not applicable.

    This is not something,to quote your comment of above, “you need to figure this out for yourself”. Would you give that advice for medical issues, just figure it out for yourself?

    These are complex halachos of a very serious nature, that are taken seriously by frum people.

    #1217072

    nishtdayngesheft
    Participant

    “She is under no obligation to follow the Psaks of Rav Shach if Chabad has a different Shitta (I have no idea what the Chabad’s psaks are in this circumstance). If the OP wishes to follow Rav Schecter or Rav Lichtenstein, she may also do so (Again I have no idea what their Psaks are in this circumstance) “

    So you do not know what a Chabad Rav would pasken, and you do not know know Rav Hershel Schechter would pasken or What Rav Aharon Lichtenstien would have paskened, but you seem to be sure that this is just a chumra?

    I wonder, who you do know, other than possibly Dov Linzer, would say it is muttar.

    #1217073

    Looks like someone really misread a post or two. We get blinded sometimes by our own prejudices…

    #1217074

    nishtdayngesheft
    Participant

    Mod 29,

    I guess it is quite possible that you did

    possible but highly unlikely. I have no prejudices here, as evidenced by the variance in posts and posters allowed through.

    #1217075

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    ZD: as Mod 29 wrote:

    “Looks like someone really misread a post or two. We get blinded sometimes by our own prejudices..”

    While it may be true that specific people have been given a heter to shake hands in specific circumstances (I don’t know for sure if that is true, but it may be), if you reread the OP, you will see that she did not mention that she was given a heter to shake hands. Nor did she ask us for a heter (which is good because none of us is qualified to do so). She did not even say that she was looking for a heter.

    I wasn’t talking to ZDAD

    #1217077

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    ZD: “There are more than one opinions on this topic and you need to decide when to use the more machmir opinion and when to use the Kula.”

    What you are saying may be true in certain cases when you are dealing with a topic in which there are different equally-valid opinions. Even then, you probably should ask a sheilah, but if they really are both equally-valid mainstream opinions given by Rabbanim whom you follow in general (and you’re not just choosing to follow their kulas), then it is possible that in some cases you might be right (but even then, you should probably ask a Rav).

    I think that what you don’t realize is that that is not the case here. This is not a situation in which there are two equally-valid opinions given. All or most mainstream Rabbanim say that it is assur to shake hands. That is NOT a chumra. It is true that there may be heterim in certain circumstances. And if someone feels that the situation he is in calls for a heter, then he should certainly ask a Rav about it. But that was not the case here. LB did not say that she felt that she couldn’t follow the halacha and wanted a heter. So we should not be discouraging her from following the halacha by telling her that she might lose out by keeping the halacha.

    In short, there is a difference between a heter and two equally-valid opinons. As far as I know, this falls in the first category.

    Also, your original objection was not based on halacha. It was based on the concern that she would lose out by following halacha, which is why I responded that one never loses out by following halacha.

    #1217078

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    LF & Nisht – maskim.

    #1217079

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    “The Rav Shach story is missing information, there are people who are willing to do any averiah to get an account or job , we are not talking about that”

    I’m not sure what information you think the story was missing.I think you may have missed the point of the story. The point was that Rav Shach said the parnassah comes from Hashem, and no one else can take away your parnassah, and you can’t get something that you weren’t meant to get.

    If you do the right thing, you don’t lose out, period. That was the point. If the halacha is that you are not allowed to shake hands, then you don’t have to worry that you will lose out by doing so.

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