Should Israeli Chareidim Move to Hungary?

Sounds like a great idea! Don’t let the door hit you on the way out!

“Should Israeli Chareidim Move to Hungary?” Yes! the sooner the better, even those who don’t want to!

How many Chilonim leave Israel each year? How many Chareidim leave?

How many Chareidim move to Israel each year? How many secular Jews move to Israel?

Where does SQUARE_ROOT live?

Think. It’s what Hashem gave you a brain for.

It never ceases to amaze me how the ostensibly Frum armchair Zionists sitting on their couch in the USA, and posting on a Frum website, are more hostile towards Israeli Chareidim than most “secular” Israelis are…

They’ll also be able to work there, like in other normal countries, rather than being forcibly impoverished by being forbidden to work until age 26 by the wicked Amalekites in the holy land.

Based on history it is unlikely that Hareidim will leave Eretz Yisrael except under far more serious threats. Secular Jews are attracted by the money and the secularism of golus. For frum Jews, there are few places in golus that would be safe. Certainly any Christian or Muslim country doesn’t qualify, not any country that allies with left wing or socialist movements. If you need a place to flee to where we are safe from anti-Semitism, you probably want to consider how long before colonization of extraterrestrial planets become practical (probably not soon enough to be of any help). A more likely solution would be that the anti-zionist Hareidim (Satmar, Neturei Karta, Eidos Hareidos…) get to say “I told you so”, the pro-Medinah Hareidi leadership is discredited, and the Hareidim work to cut a deal with the Islamic Palestinians based on a pre-zionist status quo ante that would be acceptable to the Hareidim (communal autonomy, government laws respect Halacha – but Yidden don’t try to run the government), but unacceptable to the secular Jews (ban on LGBTQ, ban on pork, no public consumption of alcohol, ban on ribis, requirement of modest clothing).

I heard from historian Yehuda Gebberer that the Hungarians were – by far – the greatest collaborators with the Nazis in the entire world. Worse than the Ukrainians, worse than the Austrians and Germans. So looking to Hungary for refuge? I dunno…

It was not a “great refuge” in 1944; those reshaim there shmaded the Jews who immigrated, not to mention that those reshaim were the reason there needed to be a “refuge” to begin with. Those reshaim lobbied governments against allowing in Jews to escape the Holocaust and then, once that horror finally ended, they called surviving Jews “traitors” if they chose to go to family in America or elsewhere instead of becoming fodder for those reshaim there.

Ki vachar Hashem biTzion @Eva LiMoshav Lo:
G-d chose the place to be His place, not a den of heresy and idolatry. And nobody should need to “fight” so that Jews can work without first being shmaded, like they could in any country. The whole “come here and change it” is a stupid argument to begin with, but especially so when the default excuse for their harassment of bnei torah is that their “Supreme” “Court” is running the country and the lawmakers are powerless. Even if that were true, that disposes of that whole argument of “come here and fight to change it” which, again, is anyways stupid.

sensibleyid said: “but in all seriousness only 12 and under and 50 and older would be able to go to avoid being arrested at the airport.”

Every Chareidi in Israel over 12[?! thinking of the ‘Cantonists’?] and under 50 has an active arrest warrant against them? On what planet?

Don’t worry, the Chareidim aren’t going anywhere. The Chilonim are being scattered all over the Earth, even to places few if any Jews ever went to in Golus until now. El Al recently started offering direct flights to Vietnam [among other nutty destinations.] There are no Chareidim on those flights…

1. The clip is from two years ago.

2. It is about 250 people evacuated from their homes in the south of Israel, only some of whom were Chareidi. Some were clearly RZ.

3. They chose to move TEMPORARILY to what looks like a bungalow colony type of place in Hungary, instead of spending over a year in crowded hotels in Israel like many others did.

4. That’s all. They’re probably long since back home by now.

5. Nothing to do with Chareidim per se, Zionism, or anything else relevant to anything.

6. So almost none of the comments make any sense in the context of what is actually going on in the clip.

Never mind Hungary. See below.

Are you an Anti-Zionist Chareidi who is repelled and frightened by modern American Culture from which you attempt to isolate yourself in ever more crowded and confined enclaves? Consider emigrating to the Jewish Homeland. No, not the accursed Zionist Entity, BIROBIDZHAN! Yes, Birobidzhan, a Jewish homeland established in 1934 as a safe haven for Europe’s despised and persecuted Jews.
Nestled along the banks of the scenic Biro River, Birobidzhan City is the capitol of a vast Jewish Autonomous Region five times the size of the Zionist State, rich in natural resources and spectacular beauty, where traditional Jewish life can continue as it was before the upheavals of the nineteenth and twentieth centuries. Why confine yourself in a pseudo-shtetl like New Square or KJ when you and your family can live an authentic Jewish life in a real shtetl, far from the poisonous influences of Western culture and technology.
Birobidzhan! Now, as then, a haven for true Jews, Ad Biyas Goel Tzedek.

lets not forget that Jewish people are the only people in the world capable of doing real Chesed and not “ill give you just to stop you from complaining and rebelling against me” but out of the continuity of kindness itself.

yet another reason to go and live in Israel.

@aaq

… Poland was at actual war for 6 years, occupied form the beginning by Germany and USSR. How Poles behaved varied …
[aaq]

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poland was terrible for jews , overall

even after the war , were there pogroms against the jews all over poland with many jewish fatalities hy’d

compare with denmark , also under german occupation for similar time …. over 90 % of jews survived

in poland …. over 90 % of jews were murdered …

testimonies from survivors abound about the general attitude re the jews within poland during the war

diaries written as events were taking place, give an accurate idea of whats was going on at the time …

diaries tell of hasidie umot haolam who risked their lives rescuing jews , begging them to keep their heroic deeds secret even after the war

lest they suffer adverse consequences if their jew loving activities become public …

a damning indictment of the general mood of society …
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@35TQ9lm5B:
“lets not forget that Jewish people are the only people in the world capable of doing real Chesed and not “ill give you just to stop you from complaining and rebelling against me” but out of the continuity of kindness itself…yet another reason to go and live in Israel.”

Actually, that’s merely a reason to be Jewish and to live among Jews, not to live in any specific country.

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“anyone watching what’s going on in Israel, and outside of it,understands that Israel is about to become a very rich country.”

Actually, anyone watching:
the unprecedented harassment of Jews by the wicked heretics there – on top of the massive shmad the idol’s entity intentionally perpetrates – and understands that the idol and its entity is a gezeirah raah that exists only due to its limited support of Torah which it is steadily decreasing,
also understands that the idol and its entity could disappear any second, leaving the Jews free and well, with G-d’s help.

yankel on Poland:
there is a good reason so many Jews moved to Poland (including areas taken later by German/AustroHung/Russian empires).
When Poles were rebelling against Russia, Jews generally supported Poles. In 1918, I think, Poland became independent again and was going through a complicated period trying to figure out how to live on their own + with significant minorities + surrounded by enemies. So did Polish Jews who went through assimilation and participated in left-wing, often anti-Polish activities. When Soviets occupied their part of Poland in 1939, they mostly put Jews on front lines of the new regime interacting with population (as there were more communist Polish Jews than Poles and to directly increase the tensions).
So, there is a lot of very complicated dynamics here, without denying bas things that were happening. Anecdotal direct testimony from a left-wing Yid: his father had a factory in Poland, the factory was moved by Germans, he himself spent WW2 in Soviet camps. When he came back, his Polish workers suggested to work for him for free until he is able to reconstruct the factory. He told them that he learned how USSR operates and has no hopes, and left for EY.
There is also aspect that post-WW2 US history of that period influenced by left-wing Jewish historians who would not investigate obvious Soviet crimes against both Poles and Jews but rather write big books investigating events by Poles. Check out, for example, history of Katyn’, where Soviets killed most of captured officers of Polish army (remarkably, seems nobody agreed to cooperate) – including a lot of Jews, including army chief Rabbi. Germans uncovered and publicized this when they captured that territory, but USSR and allies denied this as “German propaganda”. Russians admitted the truth. I think, in the 1990s. As far as I know, Jewish/Israeli historians never challenged this. If someone is near Yad Vashem asked them to show you the name of Polish Army Chief Rabbi and see what they answer.

@aaq

Wallenberg operated there under the german occupation and hungarian arrow cross gov ym’sh , post march ’44

protected only by the neutral swedish flag

hungary deserves zero credit for wallenberg

they worked against wallenberg

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hungary pre march 44 did not have so called “anti semitic” policies …

only in quotation marks ….

they had REAL antisemitic policies … with real mass jewish casualties , real jewish deportations , real jewish impoverishment as a direct result …

the only bright point about that period is … that after march ’44 , it got much , much worse …

a very small consolation ….
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@ujm

This isnt a question about horthy’s merits or otherwise

the issue was about the life of a jew in hungary pre march 1944 .

that heavily depended on who you were

if your citizenship papers were 100 % , then you were either a second or third class citizen , that is , if you were not drafted in the famous munkatabors

where your limbs and life were at great risk , depending on the whims of your particular commander

and if there were any issues with your papers , your life would be much more than ‘at risk’ , because you could be quite sure to be sent straight to the germans

with a generous ‘2 % probability of survival

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for example :

The “Fourth Jewish Law” (September 6, 1942) banned Jews from owning or purchasing land.

Hungarian troops in 1942 murdered over 3,000 Jews in the Bačka region.

Their employment in government at any level was forbidden, their numbers were restricted to six per cent among, physicians, lawyers and engineers.

Private companies were forbidden to employ more than 12% Jews.

250,000 Hungarian Jews lost their income.

Most of them lost their right to vote.

The commanders of the labour battalions often treated the Jewish units with extreme cruelty, abuse, and brutality.

Men who worked in mine quarries were frequently pushed to their deaths off the man-made cliffs and embankments.

These labour units were stationed all over Hungary, including 130,000 men at the Eastern Front in occupied Ukraine where most of the men died.

The gendarmes and Army men who guarded these “slaves” were mostly anti-Semitic, fascists.

These labour battalions were introduced in May 1939 by Prime Minister Teleki.

According to one historian , of the 40, 000 Hungarian Jewish men drafted into the Labour battalions between 1940-1942, only 5, 000 survived by 1943 .
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