July 2, 2009 9:11 pm at 9:11 pm #589975amatzevParticipant
Just some questions for thought: Maybe we shouldn’t demonstrate against secular Jerusalem. let them be Mechalel Shabbos. we anyway can’t hold them back from all the other things they are doing, so why fight this one? Or is there something deeper hidden? and are we going about it in the right way?July 2, 2009 9:32 pm at 9:32 pm #663320
oh my… heated topic! 😉
Just 2 points:
1. Is it REALLY headed? endorsed by the Gedolim?
2. I believe i saw this about the Chofetz Chaim in one of his books when someone asked him this question, and he replied: If you really understood Shabbos, If you really cared about safe gaurding the Shabbos, you would do everything in your power to stop it.July 2, 2009 9:35 pm at 9:35 pm #663321
and i’m sorry i didn’t post this before…
WELCOME!July 2, 2009 9:51 pm at 9:51 pm #663322artchillParticipant
Shabbos is not negotiable, you must protest its honor. But, the current approach is a disaster. It’s turning more frum people off, instead of turning on the secular.
When dealing with an at-risk population, and the secular who truly don’t know better Yemin Mekareves is what works.
1. Having people who can calmly and cool-headedly “make the case” on the defense of Shabbos will soften the animosity towards it.
2. THE most effective tool if you want to “gouge the eyes” of those doing chillul Shabbos is showing love to them. Have a few tables with Shabbos refreshment packages (grape juice, challah, and bamba) with a little Good Shabbos note, letting them note that hopefully one day they will appreciate the love of Shabbos, until then we as your brother are there for you with all our love and concern.
Laugh all you want about these two techniques, but they get results within six months close to 100% of the time. These are the approaches Rabbi Finkel in Chicago uses for all issues affecting those in need of spiritual yeshuos. True love of people can drown away ALL doubts about religion. Fix the physical/emotional issues and the spiritual follows as a result.July 3, 2009 1:10 am at 1:10 am #663323
artchill: your response makes a lot of sense. However, if it’s backed by the Gedolim (i don’t know if it is) then who are we to argue?
a nice pshat i heard- “Smol Doche, Yemin Mekareves”
Push with the left- it’s weaker. Pull with the right- this should be your stronger approach.
and notice, that if you push something with your left hand and pull with the right, you end up turning the item 90 degrees- to face you. So if one follows this approach, of both pushing lightly and pulling lightly, you will end up turning the person around.
Have a great meaningful Shabbat!July 8, 2009 4:50 pm at 4:50 pm #663324amatzevParticipant
Is it right what they are doing now in israel, to take out the kids to the streets?July 8, 2009 7:41 pm at 7:41 pm #663325jewishfeminist02Member
Of course we should care! The real question is whether or not to act, and how to act. There are some good suggestions already. I think it’s tricky because the second the secular group begins to feel patronized by the frum world, they “turn off” completely.October 22, 2009 11:45 am at 11:45 am #663326komaMember
“if its backed by the Gedolim” Ba’avoseinu harabim, “backed by the Gedolim” has lost its clout. There have been too many times that so-called “askanim” come charging out on some issue with a gadol’s signature on document, riots ensue, and then a gabbai pipes up that the said gadol was misquoted. There is no question that Kavod Hatorah is being sullied. The question is why, and whose agenda does it serve. From my perch in EY I can vouch that the weekday demonstrations that paralyze traffic and bus routes are regarded by the wider community as gezel harabim, and it garners no sympathy for their cause or the cause of Torah.October 22, 2009 12:28 pm at 12:28 pm #663327haifagirlParticipant
I have to say I really like artchill’s approach.
Food usually works to attract people. Imagine someone standing out there offering to make kiddush for these people and giving them food. Any way we could get some cholent (I forgot, what is the approved CR spelling?) out there too?October 22, 2009 12:48 pm at 12:48 pm #663328cantoresqMember
One can’t park where there are no spaces. Rather than engage in acts of hooliganism and riots, the chareidim should fill up the lot with their own cars before Shabbat. No spaces, no parking.October 22, 2009 2:07 pm at 2:07 pm #663329jphoneMember
Set up a table in the garage and try to give those coming to park a little taste of what shabbos is all about and perhaps in 6 months they riving over to the garage on shabbos any longer.
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