July 19, 2017 7:28 am at 7:28 am #1320639
I am a mother of six boys kah. They have all learnt in the beste yeshivas of america. However my last two although they are considered top in their shuir, i have noticed over ben hazmanim they enjoy a cold beer. My husband always says its fine but iam very nervous? I have heard and read many stories about bochurim who drink.and i am nervous they wont be able to find a shidduch id the future family finds out he drinks beer.July 19, 2017 8:21 am at 8:21 am #1320675
In England, they drink warm beer.
Maybe suggest that. If they drink warm beer, it will be more civilized and not chilling.July 19, 2017 9:00 am at 9:00 am #1320695
There is a big difference between enjoying a beer and getting drunk.July 19, 2017 9:02 am at 9:02 am #1320697
A Woman Outside BrooklynParticipant
No, Mom, we shouldn’t. Even top notch bochurim need an opportunity to relax, especially over ben hazminim. In fact, that’s why there is a ben hazmanim! If they’re over doing it and going through a six-pack then you might have cause for concern, but one or two beers isn’t gong to hurt them. Listen to your husband before it becomes an issue. BTW, I’m a mom of bochurim also, and I’d much rather my boys have a shot of whiskey with their dad on Shabbos then anyplace else.July 19, 2017 9:06 am at 9:06 am #1320702
☕ DaasYochid ☕Participant
In England, they drink warm beer.
Maybe suggest that. If they drink warm beer, it will be more civilized and not chilling.
Alternatively, she can chill the beer for them, before the BBQ.July 19, 2017 9:23 am at 9:23 am #1320711
I not sure there is a drunk issue but a question of this is what bochurim should do. It is a very pritzusdikJuly 19, 2017 9:38 am at 9:38 am #1320716
It is not a good idea. Young men do not have good judgment about such things. We live in societies in which most teenagers think the coolest thing in the world is to get as drunk as you possibly can, and that aspect of the outside culture is going to affect us at some level. If they have the opportunity, at least some of our bochurim will do the same, which at least sometimes will have tragic consequences. Did you see the Ami magazine article from a few weeks ago about the bochur who had a few beers with his friends and then accidentally ran him over and led to permanent disability?July 19, 2017 9:55 am at 9:55 am #1320728
Are we talking about “bachurim” over 21 or under 21? and are we talking about having one beer? If over 21, then follow your husbands approach. If under 21 and in NY, make sure you or your husband serves it to him and limit it to 1.
I would be a hypocrite if I turned down a shidduch for my daughters because a bachur occasionally drinks a beer.July 19, 2017 9:58 am at 9:58 am #1320731
☕ DaasYochid ☕Participant
Are talking about Budweiser, Miller, Coors, etc., or are we talking about actual beer?July 19, 2017 10:03 am at 10:03 am #1320734
I don’t have an opinion of whether it is a good idea or not, but one thing I’d like to question- you are concerned about a potential drinking problem or behavior that might to lead to one primarily because of how it would affect their image in shidduchim, but not how it might affect their health?July 19, 2017 10:06 am at 10:06 am #1320740
Why are they at the bbq? Who else is at this bbq? Perhaps beer should be the least of your worries.July 19, 2017 10:16 am at 10:16 am #1320743
If he reached majority age (13 – Bar Mitzvah), he should be making his own decisions.July 19, 2017 10:55 am at 10:55 am #1320806
“Why are they at the bbq? Who else is at this bbq? Perhaps beer should be the least of your worries.”
I agree. Drinking a beer at a BBQ with friends is OK as long as they are quality bochurim who understand the difference between a “kosher chill” and a “non-kosher chill.”July 19, 2017 10:56 am at 10:56 am #1320810
I am also getting nervousthat perhaps they drink beer in yeshiva. Is itnormal forbochurim todrink in yeshiva?July 19, 2017 11:14 am at 11:14 am #1320839
bk613, can you please describe for us here the difference between a “kosher chill” and a “non-kosher chill”?
ThanksJuly 19, 2017 11:38 am at 11:38 am #1320884
The Alcohol by volume (ABV) of Beer is generally between 4%-6%, the ABV of wine is 9%-16%. Your son would need to drink at least 6+ beers to get drunk. In other words drinking 1 beer once in a while is not a problem.July 19, 2017 11:38 am at 11:38 am #1320876
Scottsdale21: Again, it depends. Where are they in Yeshiva and what are there ages? Have you asked them if they drink in Yeshiva? Do they have a beer once in awhile or are you concerned about serious drinking? I have 7 sons, 5 of whom are now 21 or older. In my own house, I never denied them beer or even 1 or 2 shots of schnapps at the shabbos table even when they were under 21.July 19, 2017 12:39 pm at 12:39 pm #1320950
Anything stronger than beer needs to be only at the Shabbos table. Beer is something you have to try really hard to overdose on or to be directly harmed by the alcohol itself, but it’s easy to get alcohol poisoning with stronger drinks.July 19, 2017 1:10 pm at 1:10 pm #1321013
RebYidd and Moshe, it is certainly possible to get drunk on beer, as countless people can attest. Depending on your weight, how fast you drink, what you’ve eaten, your alcohol tolerance, your personal sensitivity to alcohol, etc., it is possible to get drunk on much less than 6 beers. We should be less worried about alcohol poisoning per se (which is rare anyway unless people are chugging vodka or something), but rather getting drunk and committing aveiros or doing something dangerous and getting hurt.July 19, 2017 1:10 pm at 1:10 pm #1321038
Besides for danger what about hashgachikly its very gotishJuly 19, 2017 1:12 pm at 1:12 pm #1321041
Besides for danger what about hashgachikly its very gotish
It’s true. Many beers only have an OR, which I have learned is a very goyish hashgachaJuly 19, 2017 1:32 pm at 1:32 pm #1321054
One or two isn’t enough to get drunk. Just don’t drive.
What I said about beer in general is that it doesn’t directly harm people. Getting hurt because you are under the influence and aren’t being careful is indirect harm. Anyone who plans to drink enough that they might become drunk ought to book a babysitter for themselves first.July 19, 2017 2:13 pm at 2:13 pm #1321080
“Besides for danger what about hashgachikly its very gotish”
why do I think the writer meant, “hashkafically, it is very goyish” and was not addressing kashrus concerns.July 19, 2017 2:13 pm at 2:13 pm #1321079
The question to ask is. What does it mean “chilling”. Where are they doing this chilling? Who are they doing it with? How often? What else goes on at these “chill sessions”? Are they of legal age to purchase this beer, and drink it? If not, how did they get it? Finally, why davka beer? Are they unable to “chill” with a coke or pepsi?July 19, 2017 2:13 pm at 2:13 pm #1321078
I heard it from someone who heard from a chasuv rovJuly 19, 2017 2:14 pm at 2:14 pm #1321076
I have heard from a chashuv rov that beer can be under the issur of lo sailach dont go like the ways of goyimJuly 19, 2017 3:01 pm at 3:01 pm #1321106
Every Bochur in the world Drinks beer, this sounds like a bunch of Balei Tshuva that are still not with the program of 2017 ,as long as he doesn’t smoke or drink during the Zman he’s fine.
I f someone turn you down for that resaon then dont marry into yhem because that means that they are messed up.July 19, 2017 3:01 pm at 3:01 pm #1321103
Look at the bright side: at least it is the boys driving beer and not the girls drinking beer.July 19, 2017 3:03 pm at 3:03 pm #1321095
I don’t know why beer rather than coke or pepsi. Maybe because it’s always either disgusting or expensive?July 19, 2017 3:04 pm at 3:04 pm #1321096
☢️ 🚭 ☣️ Rand0m3x 🧠🕴️🎲Participant
(Sounds like a troll to me.)July 19, 2017 3:17 pm at 3:17 pm #1321119
PS I enjoy a little alcohol with my sons and sons in law and grandsons for that matter.July 19, 2017 3:17 pm at 3:17 pm #1321118
Yiddishkeit does not go for abstinence. It is more about self control. Having a beer at a barb b que is a summer treat. One hopes that the chinuch is in place to teach self control. if anything drinking a beer or two in a calm and organised manner is arguably part of the chinuch itself. if we asser everything we run the risk of this being done secretly and that is more likely to lead to excesses. That is not a good idea. The Ami magazine story has nothing to do with this. Those bochurim were out of control to start with, they had no business to be out driving and this post does not talk about drink driving where there should be abstinence.July 19, 2017 3:20 pm at 3:20 pm #1321125
*drinking beer (not “driving beer” [spell check typo])July 19, 2017 4:05 pm at 4:05 pm #1321224
Scottsdale- If drinking beer was inherently “goyish” I doubt that R’ Pappa would have become wealthy making the stuff. Perhaps your chushiv rov was speaking of one who drinks ale straight from a 24 oz. can rather than one who takes a few sips at a sholom zachor.July 19, 2017 4:05 pm at 4:05 pm #1321170
AS the father of 5 boys and three wonderful sons i law, B’H, I can tell you there is NOTHING WRONG with your son having A cold beer. when he has SIX, then its an issue. Especially if he is at home, or with his parents.
There is nothing wrong with it, as long as its in moderation. Excessive drinking is dangerous, whether he is married or not!
We can infer from your letter, that once he’s married, he can get plastered!
Wishing your son finds the right zivug, beer or not.July 19, 2017 4:05 pm at 4:05 pm #1321143
Scottsdale21- I find it funny that u think drinking a beer is bad for shiduchim. Even the best bochurim chill and drink beer bein hazmanim. I would be more worried if your kids never drank beerJuly 19, 2017 4:05 pm at 4:05 pm #1321130
Ami magazine (and Mishpacha, etc.) are like the Coffee Room and this thread: they’re designed to rile folks up to sell more papers (or clicks.)July 19, 2017 4:13 pm at 4:13 pm #1321255
☢️ 🚭 ☣️ Rand0m3x 🧠🕴️🎲Participant
Even the best bochurim chill and drink beer bein hazmanim.
Unless things have changed from my days, I don’t think this is true.
(I am, to be sure, more than 20 years old.)July 19, 2017 4:32 pm at 4:32 pm #1321271
How much more than 20?July 19, 2017 4:33 pm at 4:33 pm #1321282
I saw this topic and I just have to know. Which part of this world are you living in? You are saying that you have top boys and dont know anything about boys chilling. Either you are in denial or you dont know your children well. Every mother who knows their children know that boys drink beer and drink on Shabbos in yeshiva. Some drink alot and some little but this is reality. And if you have top notch boys why areent you talking about smoking as most top notch boys smoke and that can ruin shidduchim.
so either you are living in denial or you just dont know what your sons are doing because this is reality in the yeshvia system. boys drink and smoke. some do it in moderation and some dont and that is why every mother needs to communicate with their children and talk to them because living in denial just wont help
and if we are no this topic I feel Rabbonim and Yeshivas should ban smoking because that is a killer and all my top notch boys smoked until they got married but one cannot seem to kick the habit.
we tried everything but the yeshivas allow smoking and parents have no control
so if we are on this topic i wish there would be speak against every yeshiva that allows smokingJuly 19, 2017 4:34 pm at 4:34 pm #1321266
Of course being married doesn’t stop someone from being harmed by bad drinking habits, but then the wife’s there to stop him.July 19, 2017 5:36 pm at 5:36 pm #1321484
Back when I was in Yeshiva, we were allowed to relax and let off steam by playing basketball, baseball, football (I was in a cold climate, so football in the snow was a favorite) listened to the occasional game or bob grant on the radio. Now, these pastimes are considered treif, (a side affliction of this is that a good bachur would almost never be caught dead in a non learning camp, despite the fact that the good bachurim are needed as proper role models for the younger boys in camp, and they are only available bein hazmanim – rabbi bender shlita has mentioned this in the past, but noone, except parents of boys in camp, realize just how serious this is) but, young men still need to let off steam and relax, and being the good guys they are, are not sneaking off to bars, and drinking beer has become the means to let off steam and relax.
As the father of a number of young men “in the dorm”, I trust their judgement that they wont do anything stupid, but, young men being young men, it is inevitable that some do. As a parent, proper chinuch, followed up by tefilla, and more tefilla, is what keeps me from worrying all day, every day.July 19, 2017 5:36 pm at 5:36 pm #1321537
“bk613, can you please describe for us here the difference between a “kosher chill” and a “non-kosher chill”?”
No. No matter what I say you are going to disagree.
Use your imagination.July 19, 2017 5:57 pm at 5:57 pm #1321570
APY, just because you as a yeshiva bochor were permitted to regularly listen to sports and talk radio does it mean that is a good idea or that it should be encouraged or permitted for most yeshiva bochorim today or, for that matter, yesteryear. It is certainly better for Yeshiva bochorim to avoid pastimes such as talk radio.July 19, 2017 6:46 pm at 6:46 pm #1321584
its 2017. There are people OD’ing left and right, guys getting involved with girls (i dont just mean texting), complete and total freedom and hedonism is being shoved down our eyes ears and brains, now imagine how a teenager feels. I say if he/she is working on themselves and trying to be a good Jew/person in this world of chaotic taavah and hester– let em drink and smoke.
When someone finds out reliable info on a guy and the worst thing he does is have beer and a bbq bein hazemanim, i would say grab him. (And give him respect. Oh and a hug.)July 19, 2017 6:47 pm at 6:47 pm #1321588
Their is no question that it is an issue. it has become a ‘cool’ thing to do nowadays. It is like smoking, albeit not as dangerous. the issue is not with health, the issue is with mentality behind it. all boys, and for that matter girls, need outlets for their excess energy and time to relax. but a ‘chill is another matter entirely. It is a concept of ‘hanging out’ ‘chilling’ ‘killing time’, in a prikutzdige way.
So although it sadly is the norm in today’s age to ‘chill’ with a beer, even in these so called ‘top yeshivas’, the mentality behind it is wrong. A true ovad would never be caught in such a manner. just because someone is a ‘tob bachut’ doesn’t mean anything about his ruchnayis, all it means is that he likes to learn ‘lomdos’.July 19, 2017 7:45 pm at 7:45 pm #1321603
Better to be a top yeshiva bochor who drinks a can of beer than a mediocre yeshiva bochor who doesn’t touch beer.July 19, 2017 7:46 pm at 7:46 pm #1321604
To a large numbr of guys, this is the substitute to what everyone else their age is doing. Have some positive vision.July 19, 2017 7:47 pm at 7:47 pm #1321606
To chill is to relax. Not anything wrong or bad. Of course, like any other neutral thing, it can be mixed up with bad things, but it in itself is not bad.July 19, 2017 8:56 pm at 8:56 pm #1321623
I beg to differ. A mediocre yeshiva bochor who does not touch beer on principle, because he understands the mentality behind, is a better thousand fold than a ‘top bochor’ that knows nothing about hashkafah only his ‘lomdos’.
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