Should Your Spouse Be Your Best Friend?

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  • #1391159
    Joseph
    Participant

    Should your spouse be your best friend?

    Should your spouse be your friend?

    What does it mean to describe a spouse as a friend?

    #1391518
    Tom Dick n Harry
    Participant

    Yes, your spouse should be your best friend, by a particular definition of friend. If friend means someone with whom you share hobbies and recreational interests, then the answer is no, your spouse doesn’t have to be your best friend. If a friend means someone who has committed to you to care about you, your happiness, success and well being, then the answer yes your spouse should be your best friend. And you should also be your spouse’s best friend. Marriage is a commitment to being devoted to each other. And that, in a nutshell, is what makes a marriage good. The more you adhere to that principal, the better the marriage will be.

    #1391526
    Joseph
    Participant

    “If a friend means someone who has committed to you to care about you, your happiness, success and well being…”

    Is that how you define a friend when it comes to friends from school, shul, neighbors, and other miscellaneous non-family friends?

    If not, why would you make a special definition of “friend” that is only applicable to a spouse? Simply call him/her a “spouse”.

    #1391536
    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    Yes!

    #1391559
    zaltzvasser
    Participant

    I think friendship is a mix of a commitment to your friend and spending time with a person with whom you share common interests. I think a marriage can get on pretty well with just the commitment part, but is energized very much when spouses enjoy each other’s company. The difference between regular friendship and marriage is that marriage can manage solely on commitment. However, a marriage won’t THRIVE w/o friendship.

    #1391560
    Tom Dick n Harry
    Participant

    Joseph. If this is merely a question of semantics, I don’t know how important that is, as long as we know the essence of the relationship even if we don’t know exactly what word to use. I will say however, that since we say the bracha Asher boro sason vesimcha …. VERAYUS (which means friendship), and presumably it’s talking about what elements should be present in the marriage, it is therefore important to define what is the essance of that rayus. The person from shul or school may be fun company, but that doesn’t mean they won’t betray you at the smallest whim of theirs, and it certainly doesn;t mean that they care and will go out of their way for you. I can’t imagine that just the fun is enough to be worthy of the title rayus – friendship. My definition of friend isn’t applicable only to a spouse. It’s applicable to any person’s who genuinely cares. That is true friendship. Even if they don’t enjoy the same recreational activities. We find that a person who learns Torah lishma becomes a person who cares genuinely about others, as we say in Pirkay Avos (6,1) that such a person who learns Torah lishma is in fact called a raya (friend). Do you think it means that this person will join you to golf? It’s important to be able to assess who your real friends are.

    #1391571
    Tom Dick n Harry
    Participant

    zaltvasser
    In most cases, men and women don’t have the same interests and pleasures. It’s unfair and unrealistic to crate an expectation which isn’t often the case. And the pursuit of it is also unhealthy. If it’s there, then it’s maybe a bonus. They might however enjoy each others company even without sharing interests. I can explain this but it’s rather lengthy and technical, Suffice it to say that in looking for a shidduch, one should not be looking for sharing recreational interests, as long as their background and personalities are basically compatible and they share values, not pleasures. They should be looking for a fine person with whom they would have a common goal and with whom they could have a caring and growing relationship.

    #1391726
    Avram in MD
    Participant

    Tom Dick n Harry,

    I can explain this but it’s rather lengthy and technical

    Please do, because I have no idea what you are trying to say.

    #1391733
    Avram in MD
    Participant

    Joseph,

    What does it mean to describe a spouse as a friend?

    The basic definition of friendship is a relationship based on mutual affection – two people who like each other. I would think that this is extremely important in a marriage. When someone says his spouse is his best friend, it is a way of expressing affection for her.

    #1391735
    Joseph
    Participant

    Using basic definitions you could also describe your spouse as your roommate. 🙂

    Being someone’s roommate typically indicates a degree of trust in each other.

    Just as you probably wouldn’t describe her as your roommate, I would think that describing her as your wife is more appropriate than describing her as your friend.

    #1391748
    Tom Dick n Harry
    Participant

    Avram in MD
    Marriage is a union with a purpose. The essential purpose is to give the person his completeness. This, however, is achieved as they unite to fulfill life’s specific goals and purposes. They are presented with all of life’s activities and challenges, and as they work together as a union in all that life brings, they relate with each other and grow to become a unit of completeness in the sense of being a complete human being, with all of the potential human positive qualities being realized. As they function this way together, they need to be true friends. They need to make sure their other half is content and well in every sense possible. If they don’t so then they are shooting their own selves in the foot, so to speak. As they function as a union, united in purpose, and complete loyalty and with this true friendship, they will tremendously enjoy working together. Working together with that type of unity and friendship is pleasurable beyond anything else. But they are not together in recreation, (except to the extent that that’s what they believe is needed to help achieve the goals) but together in purpose. That is true togetherness. Whereas togetherness in recreation is not really togetherness, because basically everyone is only thinking about his or her own good time. So while they don’t share recreational interests, since they share goals, that’s where the friendship kicks in, and they will enjoy each others company far more that simply by sharing the same taste in fun activities.

    As a side point, my understanding is that Joseph is asking because he wants to know what to look for in a shidduch. I think it’s unfair to him, and potentially damaging, to give the impression that it’s about finding a buddy for recreation, or even partly about that. That’s not a good message for a person looking for a shidduch and also not for married person. In a shidduch they should be looking for a fine person with whom they would have a common goal and with whom they could have a caring and growing relationship.

    #1391765
    Avram in MD
    Participant

    Joseph,

    Just as you probably wouldn’t describe her as your roommate, I would think that describing her as your wife is more appropriate than describing her as your friend.

    I agree with you 100%, without a doubt. I think the reason “my wife is my best friend” has become a term of endearment is due to the surrounding culture, which presents a toxic view of marriage. Wives called the old ball and chain, or the nag. The ridiculous non-Jewish custom to have one last “fun” party before the wedding, implying that the “fun” stops after marriage. The pervasive message that husbands and wives don’t enjoy each other is terrible, and I personally don’t mind any attempt to counteract that. When someone asks, “who is your best friend?”, they are asking who is liked the most, and I think it’s totally appropriate to put one’s spouse there, even if “friend” is not a comprehensive term to describe the marital relationship.

    #1391810
    Avram in MD
    Participant

    Tom Dick n Harry,

    Thank you for taking the time to clarify your point – I found it extremely helpful.

    Marriage is a union with a purpose. The essential purpose is to give the person his completeness.

    I agree, but would add that the purpose is to also to expand oneself through devotion to his/her spouse, and to emulate Hashem, who cares for us, by caring for our spouse. The desire for completeness drives a man to seek a wife.

    As they function this way together, they need to be true friends. They need to make sure their other half is content and well in every sense possible. If they don’t so then they are shooting their own selves in the foot, so to speak. As they function as a union, united in purpose, and complete loyalty and with this true friendship, they will tremendously enjoy working together. Working together with that type of unity and friendship is pleasurable beyond anything else.

    I agree with everything you wrote here.

    But they are not together in recreation, (except to the extent that that’s what they believe is needed to help achieve the goals) but together in purpose. That is true togetherness.

    I don’t fully agree with this. While it’s true that spouses don’t need to share their superficial interests, I think it’s important for spouses to spend “recreational” time together too, and to find mutual recreational interests. Husband loves to play chess. Wife does not play, and has no interest in the game. Fine. Husband can go play chess with Shlomo each week, and Wife is delighted that her husband gets to do something he enjoys. But they should find other ways to spend time together; it’s just another way to show commitment to each other.

    Whereas togetherness in recreation is not really togetherness, because basically everyone is only thinking about his or her own good time.

    That’s a rather dim view of recreation. If that were really the case, I’d say that all recreation should be avoided.

    So while they don’t share recreational interests, since they share goals, that’s where the friendship kicks in, and they will enjoy each others company far more that simply by sharing the same taste in fun activities.

    That’s fine, but I also think the couple should try to find recreational activities they both enjoy.

    As a side point, my understanding is that Joseph is asking because he wants to know what to look for in a shidduch.

    I seriously doubt that, so don’t be worried on his behalf.

    I think it’s unfair to him, and potentially damaging, to give the impression that it’s about finding a buddy for recreation, or even partly about that. That’s not a good message for a person looking for a shidduch and also not for married person. In a shidduch they should be looking for a fine person with whom they would have a common goal and with whom they could have a caring and growing relationship.

    In terms of finding a shidduch, I agree. Similar interests does not necessarily mean compatibility, and vice versa. But once married, build some mutual interests together!

    #1392041
    Tom Dick n Harry
    Participant

    Avram in MD

    Thank you. It’s nice to be heard.

    #1392103
    Shtika
    Participant

    a friend is someone who you connect with, in whatever area it might be, based on common interests. The more interests, the better connection the better the friendship. I do believe that the wife has to be a very good friend. Otherwise it’s not a deep relationship. There’s a great book called The river, the kettle and the bird. The lowest level of a martial life is like a river between 2 countries ..i do for you, you do for me. The next level is the kettle where 2 opposite forces (water and fire) come together for a common goal.. In this case to boil the water. But the ultimate level is the bird, when all aspects of life (walking, flying, eating of the bird) are like part of one unit, like the bird itself.

    #1392109
    Joseph
    Participant

    Do you think Rav Elyashiv, Rav Chaim, Rav Shach, the Steipler, the Chazon Ish, Rav Moshe, the Satmar Rebbe, the Gerrer Rebbe, Rav Aharon, the Chofetz Chaim, and most others in their category were friends with their Rebbetzins?

    #1392112
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    No less than with anyone else.

    #1392113
    Shtika
    Participant

    Joseph, yes, I personally do know of people who told me first hand accounts of how some of these gedolim loved their wives.

    #1392117
    Joseph
    Participant

    I didn’t say love. I said friends.

    #1392118
    Joseph
    Participant

    You love your mother too. Are you friends with your mother and father? With your grandparents?

    #1392119
    Tom Dick n Harry
    Participant

    Joseph,
    ‘Do you think Rav Elyashiv, Rav Chaim, Rav Shach, the Steipler, the Chazon Ish, Rav Moshe, the Satmar Rebbe, the Gerrer Rebbe, Rav Aharon, the Chofetz Chaim, and most others in their category were friends with their Rebbetzins?’
    By my definition, yes.

    #1392124
    kitov
    Participant

    A wife is a friend/enemy according to the Torah.
    ‘Ozer kinegedo’ ( helpmate but against man) is how the Torah discribes the nature of a woman.
    A perfect example was chava who gave Adam the forbidden fruit to eat in order to kill him.
    A wife can be so treacherous that rabbi gershon made decree against poligomy.
    So the answer to your question … should your spouse be your best friend ?……. probably not.

    #1392147
    Shtika
    Participant

    Kitov, just the opposite, in order to avoid a wife that you describe, you better make sure she’s your best friend.
    I never understood that chazal. What does it mean if he is zoche-then she’s an ezer, does it mean if he gets lucky? Or is he deserves it? That can’t be cause the gemora says first shiduch is based on mazal and only second on maasim

    #1392150
    Joseph
    Participant

    Shtika, are you friends with your mother and father? If not, why not?

    #1392200
    Avram in MD
    Participant

    Joseph,

    Any response to my speculation above as for why “friend” has become a marital term of endearment?

    #1392204
    Avram in MD
    Participant

    Joseph,

    Do you sing “Yedid Nefesh” on Shabbos at Shalosh seudos? Does it bother you that we call Hashem our friend, among numerous other parental terms of endearment?

    #1392216
    Joseph
    Participant

    Joseph,

    Any response to my speculation above as for why “friend” has become a marital term of endearment?

    Avram: I think your comment is a reasonable observation.

    #1392221
    JJ2020
    Participant

    Joseph – many couples have poor relationships. They don’t communicate well, don’t spend quality time together, don’t go out together. So they are married but live parallel lines ra. So what other relationship can we compare to? Friends.

    #1400474
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Joseph,

    Do you sing “Yedid Nefesh” on Shabbos at Shalosh seudos? Does it bother you that we call Hashem our friend, among numerous other parental terms of endearment?

    I haven’t noticed Joseph answering this.

    #1400567
    Joseph
    Participant

    I answered it implicitly. See my subsequent post.

    #1400712
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    There was a surrounding culture which had a toxic view of our relationship with Hashem?

    #1424107

    “According to the Vilna Gaon, marriage has not arrived at its ultimate purpose
    until husband and wife create an emotional bond between them strong
    enough to make them feel that they are two parts of a single organism.”
    -Rav Aharon Feldman in his The River, the Kettle and The Bird
    he gives the source as the GRA’s commentary on Mishlei 9:10.

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