Siddur on a Smart Phone

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  • #612752
    SayIDidIt™
    Participant

    Do you use it regularly or only as a backup when you don’t have a physical one?

    SiDi™

    #1016336
    pixelate
    Member

    I use it regularly. I especially like the half-screen mode so i can daven & watch my favorite show simultaneously.

    #1016337
    the plumber
    Member

    It depends on a couple of things. Are you in middle of a good convo? Are the Yankees playing?

    #1016338
    SayIDidIt™
    Participant

    pixelate LOL!

    SiDi™

    #1016339
    sm29
    Participant

    lol did you ever see the cell in shul video, very cute, it has music though

    #1016340
    Sam2
    Participant

    The one app that I saw is really cool. It changes based on the day (e.g. adds Al Hanisim on Channukah) and, supposedly, doesn’t work on Shabbos or Yom Tov.

    #1016341

    Sam2, what is this app called?

    #1016342
    the plumber
    Member

    Pixelate, why only half screen. I do full screen.

    #1016343
    the plumber
    Member

    Plus, my app is better, it also works on shabbos

    #1016344
    yungermanS
    Participant

    Anyone know what it feels like talking to Obama? What about Harav Kanievsky Shlita? would you speak to them while looking at your phone at a game at the same time? What about the KING OF KINGS HASHEM? is there even a doubt that its a pure shame to Hashem & you need to beg Hashem for forgivness?

    the answer isn’t that it doesn’t pay to daven but actually its an embarrassment To HASHEM

    #1016345
    ZachKessin
    Member

    I’m pretty sure the half screen comments were a joke. I see people use them all the time. If you find one you like it seems a good deal, you always have a siddur with you, and its one less thing to carry around.

    I don’t use one, mostly because they tend to have small typefaces and my hebrew is not so good, so I like using a Siddur with big print.

    #1016346
    the plumber
    Member

    Yungermans. I agree with you. That’s why I only do full screen. That way I’m not taking to Hashem

    #1016347
    SayIDidIt™
    Participant

    YungermanS: You would be right if someone is playing games during davening, however, I am asking about using a smartphone to daven from. And by the way, Obama can’t do anything without a teleprompter!

    The following apps give that days teffilot (yaleh veyavoh, mashiv haruach, sefira, etc.) SmartSiddur (mostly free, but some options need a paid version) and Tfilon (completely free). Both have options to pick Nussach and text size.

    SiDi™

    #1016348
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    I have an app that makes the phone vibrate violently to remind me to stop texting with my friends during davening.

    #1016349

    I would opine with YungermanS. I wrote that already. There’s something known as decorum. Respectfulness, reverence, veneration. It’s does not exude from toying a gadget while in conversation with the Most Powerful Ruler of the universe. Even if used FOR prayer. In my humble opinion. (I think it’s forbidden to be engaged in any activity while in the middle of a brocha, certainly clicking tagging, pressing, dragging, pasting, expanding, re-sizing, flipping and etc. should be included)

    #1016350
    gabbaisheini
    Participant

    When you’re finished davening, do you kiss your smartphone?

    #1016351
    pixelate
    Member

    lol

    #1016352
    SayIDidIt™
    Participant

    Little Froggie, you are right, if someone is “clicking tagging, pressing, dragging, pasting, expanding, re-sizing, flipping and etc.” that is completely wrong and disrespectful (to anyone, kal vechomer Hashem). But if someone would set up the display before davening and would only need to scroll down, why would that be any different than a siddur?, And needless to say, s/he would not check or respond to any incoming calls or texts, of course! (Many people, without using there smartphone as a siddur will still check there phone in middle of davening. This is a separate issue and should be worked on by each individual. And that incl)

    #1016353
    poppas abba
    Member

    As heard from a friend. Rav Malkiel saw someone on a smart phone during davening and was very perturbed. Someone suggested that maybe he was davening from it. Rav Malkiel reponded “no, he would have just scrolled to the bottom and press send.”

    #1016354
    SayIDidIt™
    Participant

    Little Froggie, you are right if someone is “clicking tagging, pressing, dragging, pasting, expanding, re-sizing, flipping and etc.” during ring davening that would be wrong and disrespectful (to anyone, kal vechomer Hashem!) But if someone would set up the display before davening and would only need to scroll down to the next page, why would that be any different than turning pages in a Siddur? Needless to say, s/he would not check any incoming calls or texts! (Unfortunately, people are doing that even when not using the phone as a Siddur.)

    By the way, Smart Siddur (app mentioned above) has an option to put the phone in silent mode while using the Siddur.

    SiDi™

    #1016355
    the plumber
    Member

    Sidi. Because you are bringing tumah into a beis knesses

    #1016356
    charliehall
    Participant

    “what is this app called?”

    I don’t know whether it is the same one, but mine is Siddur Ashkenaz by OKtm Websites. It also adjusts the siddur depending on the day and appears not to have a Shabat option. (I’ve never tried it on Shabat so I can’t tell for sure!) I use it a lot, most recently at minchah today. The company has a lot of other Jewish apps for Android; I don’t know what they have for Apple.

    #1016357

    SiDi: Again, those are of my own humble opinion. Maybe yes maybe no. Another MAJOR consideration is of another’s view of this individual. In a shul, together in a minyan. It also has to be considered. It’s a TERRIBLE chilul HaShem in my view. Hey look there, there’s a guy playing on his toy during Davening. Maybe I too don’t have to exert myself so much…

    #1016358

    Thank you SiDi and Charlie.

    I will not express an opinion on using it in shul, but I hope most can agree that if someone already has such a device, it is good to have a siddur on it for emergencies.

    #1016359
    the plumber
    Member

    Thank you all for your chizuk. I will always use a siddur for davening. Now everyone will be able to tell when I’m texting

    #1016360
    oyyoyyoy
    Participant

    while using the siddur app do txts pop up?

    #1016361
    2NI3
    Participant

    yes

    #1016362
    zahavasdad
    Participant

    Ive almost always seen people use smartphone siddurs in places where there is no siddur available like a workplace minyan or a hastily formed minyan like in a wedding hall. It not always possible to carry a siddur with you

    Ive only rarely if ever have I seen it used in a shul

    #1016363
    dafbiyun
    Participant

    If I were a great chasideshe rebbe of days bygone I would say” Ribbono Shel Olem , look at your children; even when they are playing with their phones they are davening to you” However being a calter litvak, I say anyone who is texting or reading messages on his phone should be thrown out of shul together with the talkers.

    #1016364
    oyyoyyoy
    Participant

    If txts do indeed come up on the top or whatever i think its impossible not to get distracted.

    I personally feel davening without a siddur comes more from my heart but who am i to argue on our gedoylim.

    #1016365
    Sam2
    Participant

    LF: Again, those are of my own humble opinion. Maybe yes maybe no. Another MAJOR consideration is of another’s view of this individual. In a shul, together in a minyan. It also has to be considered. It’s a TERRIBLE chilul HaShem in my view. Hey look there, there’s a guy playing on his toy during Davening. Maybe I too don’t have to exert myself so much…

    I disagree. You wouldn’t say the same about someone using a Siddur. “Oh look, he’s reading a book instead of Davening.” People know that phones have Siddur apps. People know that phones have airplane modes. Whenever I see someone on a phone in Shul, I automatically assume he’s Davening from it. What else would he be doing? Now, the person with a phone in his pocket who runs out when it starts buzzing… (Well, hopefully his wife is in labor.)

    #1016366
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Sam, I disagree with you, especially on your comparison.

    The inyan of being dan l’kaf z’chus doesn’t negate the inyan of vih’yisem n’kiyim, so despite the fact that you properly assume that someone on a smartphone in shul is using it as a siddur, it might still be the wrong thing to do.

    I don’t know where you daven, but where I daven, most people use siddurim, so no assumption is likely to be made that someone is reading a book.

    I have most definitely seen people using a smartphone for non-davening purposes in shul, so in my experience, that’s a much more reasonable assumption to make.

    I think it’s worth the twenty second investment of time to grab a paper version from the shelf.

    Of course, I might be biased, because I’m a traditionalist at heart.

    #1016367
    apushatayid
    Participant

    sounds very much like the discussion about “pareve milk” of 40-50 years ago. now, who suspects that otherwise reliable people are drinking milk in their coffee after a fleishig meal now that “everyone” knows about “pareve milk”.

    #1016368
    apushatayid
    Participant

    practically speaking, how different is it then looking into a gemara while you are supposed to be davening.

    #1016369
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Apushatayid, they may both be wrong during davening, but you surely don’t mean to compare learning with checking emails.

    #1016370
    apushatayid
    Participant

    im not saying they are equal, but from the perspective of “whats he doing in the middle of davening” there isnt much difference. in both cases the person is saying, id rather be doing something else instead of talking to hashem.

    to you it is perfectly normal that no frum person does that, you grew up with the concept of “pareve milk”, 50 years ago almost noone heard of such a thing and at best, it looked “funny”. I dont want to predict how quickly it will happen, but with the proliferation of smart phones and available apps, it will be as common as “pareve milk” and noone will think twice about it.

    #1016371
    oyyoyyoy
    Participant

    im not saying they are equal, but from the perspective of “whats he doing in the middle of davening” there isnt much difference. in both cases the person is saying, id rather be doing something else instead of talking to hashem.

    First of all that depends on what part of davening you are talking abou. Is he in middle of shmona esrai? After and just waiting for the shatz?

    Second, we do at times see in halacha the difference between stam talking and learning. There are times when learning would really be permissible but it may cause someone to think he can talk so its not allowed. A

    Last, while i agree that it may be a bit of a chutzpa to learn Hashem’s Torah at a time when it’s assur to do so, you surely can’t compare a man checking his emails or playing a game with learning. Mizrach and maariv dude.

    #1016372
    dafbiyun
    Participant

    apushata: if you accept the idea that davening is “us talking to Hashem” while learning is “Hashem talking to us” then learning , especially while waiting for the shliach tzibur, or bain gavra l’gavra is just a shift in the conversation. Looking at one’s phone messages, or actually typing an emails during davening is a chutzpa beyond belief. I have no problem with someone davening from a phone . (personally I never carry a phone exempt on busniuss trips… and I still don’t know how to text.)

    #1016373
    Sam2
    Participant

    oy: A Rebbe of mine once told the story that he found out a Talmid was learning in the bathroom. The Talmid’s logic was very simple. If more learning=more Olam Haba, then why should he lose out just because he has to go to the bathroom.

    The answer is also very simple. Torah is about much more (and much less) than gaining knowledge or even gaining an understanding of HKBH. It is because Hashem wants us to, which is both the simplest and most complex reason imaginable. Hashem doesn’t want us learning or checking our email during Davening. I would not be so brazen as to guess which is worse. I could definitely hear that learning during an Assur time is both a Bizayon to the learning and the Davening, though, which would make it worse than checking email, which is just a Bizayon to Davening.

    #1016374
    SayIDidIt™
    Participant

    I don’t think anyone (with a brain) would say it is right to answer, check, read, send… calls, texts, emails etc. during davening. That is outright wrong and a disgrace to Hakadosh Baruch Hu.

    The question is using an electronic device in place of a Siddur (and the same thing can be asked about chumash, gemarah, tehillim or any other sefer). Is there something wrong with it

    It is a very old “minhag” for people to do other things during davening. Talking is probably the #1 distraction in most shuls

    The issue of texts popping up each person has to decide for themselves how they want to handle that. There are options to control these things and if you can’t find anything to your liking, build an app that you can control!

    And to respond to the plumber, who said “Because you are bringing tumah into a beis knesses”:What tumah? the siddur? If you are referring to the phone, first of all, it can be a Kosher phone. And if it’s not, then that has nothing to do with the siddur. You are bringing the” tumah” into the beis knesses just by having the phone in your pocket.

    SiDi™

    #1016375
    oyyoyyoy
    Participant

    I could definitely hear that learning during an Assur time is both a Bizayon to the learning and the Davening, though, which would make it worse than checking email, which is just a Bizayon to Davening.

    A. I tried to preempt this taanah. My personal feeling was (and is) that the reason something would be a bizayon to davening is because you’re showing that what you’re doing has more importance than the davening. It follows that a man checking his emails shows a much lower level of respect for davening than the person learning during davening, since torah is yikarah mipninim and all of kapitul 119 etc.

    B. There are times when shmoozing would be assur and learning isn’t.

    Torah is about much more (and much less) than gaining knowledge or even gaining an understanding of HKBH. It is because Hashem wants us to, which is both the simplest and most complex reason imaginable

    It’s an age old machlokes of what torah lishmah is. Noone says though that there is not more to torah than just that.

    #1016376
    lesschumras
    Participant

    I have the Okim app. 1. Texts do not appear 2. I do not use it in shul. I use it in places where siddurs are not available ( workplace and simcha minyans ) and for benching.

    #1016377
    lesschumras
    Participant

    I have a nice Sfira app. You can set the reminder alarm for the evening and the next morning ( in the morning there is no bracha ) and the alarms don’t go off on Shabbos an Yom Tov

    #1016378
    A nony mouse
    Participant

    Lesschumros – I can’t find that app you mentioned

    You can text 616-613-OMER to get sefirah reminders every night by text

    #1016379
    A nony mouse
    Participant

    I can’t find that okim siddur app…

    What’s it called?

    #1016380
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    He probably meant Oktm, as mentioned earlier by Charlie.

    #1016381
    A nony mouse
    Participant

    Thanks I found it

    #1016382
    apushatayid
    Participant

    “if you accept the idea that davening is “us talking to Hashem” while learning is “Hashem talking to us” then learning , especially while waiting for the shliach tzibur, or bain gavra l’gavra is just a shift in the conversation.”

    I was not referring to bain gavra ligavra or waiting for the shatz. I was reffering to those who “daven” from their sefer.

    #1016383
    apushatayid
    Participant

    “lower level of respect for davening than the person learning during davening”

    so, if the alternative is talking lashon hara or checking email…..

    #1016384
    CRuzer
    Member

    One can easily put their phone in Airplane Mode so as not to receive any texts or any other kinds of communications from their phone while they daven.

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