Sidewalk chalk

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  • #609804

    WIY
    Member

    Am I the only one really bothered by this? Well I am bothered on 3 levels really. Firstly the concept itself. Its defacement and its wrong to deface city property. Additionally its an ugly eye sore and makes the sidewalks look ridiculous. I think most people take pride in a somewhat normal looking street and want to live in a nice looking area and care about how the street looks. I want my sidewalk on my block to look clean, not mishkebabled and scribbled with your kid’s idea of art!

    My biggest concern though is that I live in a frum and chassidish neighborhood and for the life of me I cant understand how people can be so callous and purchase sidewalk chalk for their kids and encourage them to chalk up the sidewalks. You are teaching your kids to be mazikim. Its bad chinuch on so many levels. I just don’t get how frum people just copy the non Jews with everything. Grow a stinking backbone and tell your kids no for once! Your little mazikim will grow up to be big mazikim if this is what you show them is proper to do!

    #963391

    TheGoq
    Participant

    “Am I the only one really bothered by this?”

    Yes.

    #963392

    cinderella
    Member

    Okay, I’m sorry. I can’t really take you seriously. Firstly, you sound like a grumpy old man. Let the children have their fun. Defacement? Seriously?

    Also, you used the word Mishkebabled . Sophisticated argument you make there.

    I just don’t get how frum people just copy the non Jews with everything.

    ?

    #963393

    ubiquitin
    Participant

    “Am I the only one really bothered by this?”

    Most probably. Im sure if you look hard enough you may find someone who is a little bothered, but really bothered, I highly doubt it

    #963394

    jbaldy22
    Member

    This sounds like a perfect question for the chinuch roundtable.

    #963395

    SaysMe
    Member

    seriously? Defacement? No. Eyesore? No. Bad chinuch?? Yoish. You clearly never had little siblings.

    #963396

    Nechomah
    Participant

    Sidewalk chalk washes off. If it really bothers you, take some floor cleaner (I have Fantastik, which is Israeli and is great on all floors, including sidewalks) and scrub it a bit. It will go off. Children do need some inexpensive outlets for their energy and creativity. I’m not sure why you’re so bothered by this.

    #963397

    YW Moderator-20
    Moderator

    For goodness sake, it’s some street chalk that washes away with the slightest rain water. They’re not being mazek anything.

    #963398

    HaKatan
    Participant

    WIY, what does the local municipality say about the matter? Do they object? If an employee from the relevant department would see a kid do this, would they care? Do they actually condone this or simply tolerate it? Or do they forbid it?

    I think the validity of your assertions really depend on the answers to these points.

    If this is an approved activity for kids, I don’t see why your opinion on their art is relevant, and these parents are not “teaching their kids to be mazikim” if it’s an approved activity.

    But if kids chalking the sidewalk is not approved by your local municipality (perhaps even if it is tolerated), however, then I agree with your points about defacement and chinuch.

    Having said that, even if it were approved, if it is true that those kids would then have less respect for public property, then I would agree that parents should probably just say no for chinuch purposes.

    #963399

    RABBAIM
    Participant

    It’s not exactly graffiti. That would be mazik!

    It is permissible fun………….

    Smile that Yiddishe kinder are enjoying themselves!

    Smile that there are Yiddishe kinder!!!

    #963400

    Yatzmich
    Member

    WIY,

    Do you have any children?

    #963401

    littlefishy
    Member

    HAHA, WIY you’re funny 😀 … you ARE joking… aren’t you?

    #963402

    Ender
    Participant

    WIY,

    Were you ever a child?

    #963403

    Yatzmich
    Member

    WIY,

    Nu, answer the questions

    #963404

    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    I assumed it was more of a parody than a joke.

    #963405

    golfer
    Participant

    Yesterday I saw some cute little kids with curly little payos crouching on the pavement outside an apartment building, working busily with colored chalk. Their turbaned mother watched with their plump baby sister in her lap. I felt sorry to see them stuck in the city on a sweltering hot summer afternoon, and happy that their mother was able to take a small break and keep them content and occupied.

    Then I found WIY’s strange post.

    ???

    #963406

    WIY
    Member

    Theres more than one story of parents being arrested for allowing their kids to chalk sidewalks and there have been some hefty fines as well. Its against the law in many places. You can be subject to arrest for chalking on public property. The NYPD has been known to enforce a New York City law that bars writing on any public property, including sidewalks.

    It doesn’t ruin my day chas veshalom but it does annoy me and especially the fact that frum people take a part in this. I guess some people are just so immune to breaking laws and caring about yenem that they are in the “everything is ok” as long as my kid is occupied stage. Thats totally anti Torah thinking.

    #963407

    writersoul
    Member

    I can’t relate, because I live in Monsey, where a public sidewalk in a residential area is pretty rare (okay, it depends where you live) and kids use chalk on their own driveways. Whether it’s against the law in NYC I don’t know. But really, measure how bothered you really are by it. If it’s a really, REALLY big deal to you, measure your priorities and make sure you’re focused on the right things.

    The law is the city’s business. How you react to inane things is yours.

    #963408

    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    I guess some people are just so immune to breaking laws and caring about yenem that they are in the “everything is ok” as long as my kid is occupied stage. Thats totally anti Torah thinking.

    that is ridiculous. how many people here had a clue that it was illegal? Most assumed you were joking, and I still don’t believe it’s true. To think that that implies we have such a mindset as you mention is beyond silly. You are either playing your part well, or jumping over an abyss to draw conclusions.

    #963409

    About the police giving tickets…is strange as i thought parking at a pump was not legal, yet this is where the police park near my house to goof off, busy on their shmutz phones, eating free lunch and other things i won’t mention. About the chalk, the rain does a good job washing the chalk off. As long as the houseowner doesn’t mind, i don’t see the problem. It gives the sidewalk some color!!!! I could list alot of things people do that are illegal and annoying with this at least the kids are having a good time and not annoying anyone except for nickpickers!!!

    #963410

    WIY
    Member

    Ms. Critique who may always know the answers correctly

    In the summer I spend a lot of time looking at the sidewalks when I walk hence my noticing the chalk and getting bothered by it. Its kind of the only place that is kosher for a man to look when walking on the street…

    #963411

    Look up! Nobody looks up anymore.

    #963412

    Mammele
    Participant

    WIY: today’s your lucky day. There’s a story in the news of a 40 year Californian facing up to 13 years in prison for scrawling anti-bank messages in front of Bank of America branches with washable chalk. He’s not expected to get 13 years — he’s charged with 13 counts of vandalism, with a max sentence of $1000.00 and 1 year per count. The judge is not allowing him to bring up free speech, so it’s in essence a simple graffiti case, although I believe it was instigated by BofA.

    As I said WIY, today’s your lucky day. With little support from the CR, others are intervening on your behalf…

    #963413

    Mammele
    Participant

    WIY: no ill will for closing that other thread (thanks Mods, that was quick) I’m bumping this instead…

    #963414

    mewho
    Participant

    its not a permanent drawing. once it rains it washes the picture away. and if you really want to go above and beyond, you can take a bottle or bucket of water and wash it off

    #963415

    oomis
    Participant

    I think you are too bothered. it’s not grafitti, and it washes away. When I was growing up, you couldn’t FIND a sidewalk without potsy squares chalked in.

    #963416

    Toi
    Participant

    right, we’re in the age of keep your kid occupied on the internet, but chas vishalom they should have some old fashioned harmless fun. this thread is wacked.

    #963417

    TheGoq
    Participant

    Oomis did they have fonzy squares too?

    #963418

    WIY
    Member

    Now I know why its raining so much lately. Lol.

    #963419

    Ayayashreichem24
    Participant

    Would it bother you if the child would be allowed to color on the sidewalk as long as he’s responsible to wash it off as soon as he’s done?

    Seriously asking. I don’t get why it makes you so upset, but if you say that it’s against the law does this make it better?

    #963420

    WIY
    Member

    It doesn’t make me so upset but it does annoy me, and I guess if they would immediately wash it off it would bother me.

    #963421

    OURtorah
    Participant

    WIY- I work in a FRUM camp for kids with special needs, and they play with chalk. does that offend you?

    #963422

    WIY
    Member

    OURtorah

    What you do on your private grounds is your business. The sidewalk is not yours to with as you choose.

    #963423

    Really? Then why does the law say that you have to shovel the snow on the sidewalk in front of your house?

    #963424

    flyer
    Participant

    technically it is. If it was cracked who would have to fix it? you or the city? if someone fell on your front sidewalk – who would they sue – you or the city? YOU – it is your responsibility – there is nothing wrong with kids coloring with chalk with comes off with rain!!

    #963425

    OURtorah
    Participant

    WIY- I totally respect your opinion, and I can understand where you are coming from. But I’m not quite understanding why this is an issue? It is just sidewalk chalk. Harmless! And the kids have such fun playing with it! and with this rainy season anyhow, the chalk gets washed away!! In my opinion, (and I’m coming from a stance where I respect you and your opinion) I suggest you let this one go. There are so many worse things in the world! You sound like a person who genuinely cares about this earth, and the beauty Hashem made of it, and you’d like to see it preserved. How about you focus on real issues affecting it 🙂

    #963426

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    lol.

    I agree with Goq:

    “Am I the only one really bothered by this?”

    Yes.

    #963427

    Mammele
    Participant

    WIY: I think you meant to say if they would immediately wash it off it WOULDN’T bother you. Correct?

    #963428

    WIY
    Member

    OURtorah

    I’m maskim its not a huge issue and I think I made it sound like it bothers me more than it does. So now I came across making a big deal out of a minor annoyance. Oh well.

    Mammele

    Correct. Thanks.

    #963429

    🐵 ⌨ Gamanit
    Participant

    WIY- do you also have an issue with children using sidewalk chalk in front of their parents private homes with permission from their parents?

    #963430

    oomis
    Participant

    technically it is. If it was cracked who would have to fix it? you or the city? if someone fell on your front sidewalk – who would they sue – you or the city? YOU – it is your responsibility – there is nothing wrong with kids coloring with chalk with comes off with rain!! “

    FTR, it depends on WHY it cracked. If it is just cracked, stam, yes you the homeowner could be responsible for the repair. BUT – if the crack was caused by a City tree whoe roots were forcing the sidewalk upward, the City of NY is totally responsible. We just (after a four year battle with bureacracy), got our sidewalk AND our driveway repaired (yes, they had to repair our driveway because THEIR tree roots grew under it and broke it badly all over, so we could not even get into our driveway for years). it was battle to get them to act, but in the end it was their tree, their fault, and I told them I was advising people to sue them if they fell. I painted the areas that were broken with yellow bus paint, just to make it obvious there was sakana there, but it was nevertheless not my responsibility from a legal point. The City finally acknowledge their achrayus. And now I can park safely and walk safely, and push the baby carriage easily. A mechayeh.

    #963431

    miritchka
    Member

    So after reading the orignial post, i tried to figure out what exactly could be so bothersome. I came up with one conclusion. Cuz this bothers me too:

    After walking on sidewalk chalk, the dust of the chalk clings to your shoes which then leaves chalk-footprints all over my floors. Therefore i told my children that if they want to color with chalk they have to color in a place that people dont walk. They usually color in my yard but not in the area that goes from the public sidewalk to my front door.

    #963432

    oomis
    Participant

    Miritchka, fair enough.

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