Simcha: Boy or girl’s name?

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  • #1714545

    Yabia Omer
    Participant

    How can it be a boy’s name if it’s a feminine noun in Hebrew?

    #1714568

    cholentandkugel
    Participant

    definitely a boys name but some nouns are yotzei min haclal and this is an example of it

    #1714567

    ubiquitin
    Participant

    why can’t a feminine noun in Hebrew be a boy’s name?

    #1714566

    Male or female:
    Yona
    Micha
    Noam

    #1714575

    Yabia Omer
    Participant

    Simcha is definitely a GIRL’S name.

    #1714577

    ZionGate
    Participant

    Male or female:
    Rebbetzin

    #1714578

    Joseph
    Participant

    Depends whether you’re Ashkenazic or Sefardic.

    #1714580

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    I’ve heard Simcha and Yona for both, but I never heard of Micha or Noam for a female.

    #1714588

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Simcha is definitely a GIRL’S name.

    It is also definitely a boy’s name.

    #1714590

    Don’t be silly! Simcha was the name of many gedolim: R’ Simcha Rappaprt (which R’ Yonoson Eibshitz in Sefer Yeoras Dvash praises highly); Reb Simcha of Vilhozin, student of the GRA; and of course the Chofetz Chaim, R’ Meir Simcha of Dvinsk (plus countless others)!

    #1714602

    In fact, Simcha id definitely a BOY’S name (and a “chidush” to use it for a girl’s name). We find nowhere in Tanach or Shas that any girl is called Simcha, but we DO find Simcha as a male name.

    See Sukka 48b that there were two men heretics, one called Sosson and one called Simcha that were arguing whose name is “greater”,.. Simcha said the possuk says first his name: Layhudim hotsa ora v’simcha v’sosson…(see interesting debate).

    The Machzor Vitri was written by Rabbeinu Simcha d’Vittara, a student of Rashi and grandfather of the SMAG.And Rabbeinu Simcha – the Baal Ha’Itur.

    And one of the Baalei Tosfos was Rabbeinu Simcha, see tosfos Yuma 46b D”H Ki.

    So I am on solid ground to state that SImcha is a male name, but where do you find support tostate that Simcha is a female name?!

    #1714616

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    RGP, you mean the Or Sameach.

    #1714618

    Joseph
    Participant

    I’ve heard Michal for a female.

    #1714620

    Yes, that is what happens when I am doing three things at one time (cooking, learning a shiyur on line and posting)! And did I already put salt in the soup? And what’s with those meatballs!

    #1714623

    Yabia Omer
    Participant

    Rebbitzen: גירסא דינקותא. That’s where. Much stronger than your piluplim.

    Simcha is definitely a girl’s name. I know it’s a boy’s name but that’s plain strange. It’s a feminine word.

    #1714626

    DY, to err is human, to persist is devilish (and signs of a Democrat), but to blame others shows managerial potential (and a true politician).

    #1714700

    thinker123
    Participant

    People, do yourself a favor and look up שמות גיטין in שולחן ערוך אבן העזר סי’ קכ”ט the בית שמואל clearly states that the name is for men and women. (As is the case regarding a few other names). Its irrelevant who uses the name more.

    #1714701

    thinker123
    Participant

    People do yourself a favor and look in the shulchan aruch ev”h 129 the beis shmuel says it is a name for men and women. (As is the case with a few other names) its irrelevant who uses the name more.

    #1714676

    Likewise, the name Menucha is common for girls, yet the word menucha is zochor, as Rashi states in Yuma 81b D”H Tishbisu that “menucha” is loshon zochor. Yet, it is used commonly as a name for girls. Therefore, the word being zochor or nekeva is not determinative if the name is for a boy or a girl.One cannot judge by the word itself (that it is zochor or nekavah) to decide if the name is for a boy or for a girl.

    #1714690

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    If there is a girl by that name, it’s a girl’s name. If there is a boy by that name, it’s a boy’s name.

    #1714695

    Not my pilpulim, sources from seforim:

    In Sefer Pada Es Avraham by the Gaon R’ Avraham Palagi (Mareches Shin, Os 19, Daf 22c) writes: ” To give a male the name “Simcha” is consistent with the psukim, but to do the opposite, to give a female this male name, one must wonder if it is permitted, since it is placing a male garment on a female (lo yiyeh kli gever al isha), because it causes confusuin among the genders.”

    Although we find women named Simcha, it is a male name and as quotes, one must wonder if it is permitted – as this sefer writes.

    As I wrote earlier, there were many gedolim, such as student of Rashi, Baalei Tosfos, the Or Samech etc. that were called Simcha. It is a man’s name that people. for whatever unknown reason, also use for women (not the other way around).To assert that it is a woman’s name and not a man’s name is factually incorrect.

    #1714757

    Joseph
    Participant

    Can two Simcha’s marry each other? It must’ve happened at least a couple of times over the last few thousand years.

    #1714898

    Yabia Omer
    Participant

    Please meet my son’s: Tehila, Tova and Shira

    #1714897

    Yabia Omer
    Participant

    Very interesting discussion.

    #1714891

    iacisrmma
    Participant

    Reb G. You wrote “and of course the Chofetz Chaim, R’ Meir Simcha of Dvinsk”. The Chofetz Chaim???? R’ Yisroel Meir Hakohen Kagan? Where is his name Simcha?

    #1714890

    iacisrmma
    Participant

    Yabia omer! I guess you never heard of Rabbi Simcha Sheps Tzatzal or Simcha Bunim of Peshischa Tzatzal or Y’LCT R’ Simcha Bunim Cohen (Rabbi Brog’s son in law).

    #1714884

    inmyopinion
    Participant

    The Chasam Soifer ztz”l had a daughter name Simcha.

    #1714793

    Uncle Ben
    Participant

    Thank you Rebbetzin Golden, I have a close male relative named Simcha and this issue has bothered me for some time.
    I remember when he was a bochur, a shadchan with a sense of humor wanted to redt a shiduch for him with a Yemenite girl also named Simcha!

    #1714869

    besalel
    Participant

    joseph: no they cant because ein me’arvin simcha besimcha!

    #1714873

    akuperma
    Participant

    both. One finds individuals of both genders with the name. I suggest giving a child with the name a middle name that is gender-specific so people won’t have to ask.

    #1714953

    Joseph
    Participant

    iacisrmma: What’s R’ Simcha Bunim Cohen’s father in law to you?

    #1714964

    iacisrmma
    Participant

    joseph: a Talmud chacham who was the son in law of R’ Avigdor Miller

    #1715014

    Joseph, the real shaylah is if the chosson’s name is Simcha and the kallah’s mother-in-law is named Simcha/

    In such a case, is there a kedaida from Tzavas Rabi Yehuda HaChossid, that a chosson shouldn’t have same name as his father-in-law and kallah shouldn’t have same name as her mother-in-law?

    Does it apply also across genders: kallah with the same name as father-in-law, chosson with the same name as mother-in-law?

    It will be discussed in my soon to be published best selling sefer, מִבֶּ֧טֶן שְׁא֛וֹל (if my husband שאול approves the name because it is part of possuk ויענני מבטן שאול שועתי שמעת קולי).

    #1714992

    iacisrmma – DY pointed out the error, I meant the Or Sameach – my fault for multitasking. I hope it did not cause you serious sefaykos in emmunah, a hezek in momonus, or problems in sholom bayis. If it did, please be mochel as I say Al Chet..

    My twin daughter’s names are Avigayil and Avichiyal. I call them both Avi (efficient – one call gets them both).

    #1715068

    thinker123
    Participant

    Joseph
    Its not a problem, See טיב גיטין שמות נשים אות ב’ ס”ק א

    #1715072

    yoseyg
    Participant

    Talking about names: How about one of the Great Baaley Mussar Reb Simcha Zissel! (The Alter of Kelm)

    #1715107

    laskern
    Participant

    besalel. I appreciate you sense of humor. אין מערבין שמחה בשמחה

    #1715120

    laskern
    Participant

    The Shevat Sofer, Rav Simcha Bunim Sofer ztz’l and Rav Simcha Bunim Ehrenfeld ztz’l

    #1715128

    Yabia Omer
    Participant

    We always found it amusing when we heard Simcha for a male.

    #1715160

    laskern
    Participant

    The names were based on a story where the wife was mixed up with the mother in law. I don’t think it applies across genders since this ie not a comon occurence and we don’t suspect this. When it comes to men, the Chasam Sofer says , we should worry more to be a talmid chacham.

    #1715216

    Yabia Omer
    Participant

    What about the name Mazal?

    #1716218

    lasken – “The names were based on a story where the wife was mixed up with the mother in law.” Where did you get that fairy tale from?

    Certainly not the Noda B’Yehuda Shu’t Even Ha’ezer II #79 (that discusses and discounts the Tzavah, saying it would only apply to Rabbi Yehuda HaChosid’s descendants).

    Indeed, the Noda B’Yehuda also proposes that the concerns of Rabbi Yehuda HaChosid apply only to birth names or names given to sons at their bris, but do not apply to any name changes that take place afterwards. (This militates against the concern you mention of mixing up people- as such a “concern” would apply also to changed names that take place afterwards!)

    Please do not spread misinformation, as Trump would call it Fake info.

    #1716200

    Y.O , ask yourself, is it Mazal Tov or Mazal Tova? It’s Mazal Tov – masculine. But the masculine or the feminine form of the noun is not determinative if it is a boy’s or girl’s name.

    #1716296

    Yabia Omer
    Participant

    Good point. It all build down to what you’re familiar with. For me, Simchas and Mazals were all women.

    #1716291

    Joseph
    Participant

    Rav Chaim would probably say she should change her name.

    #1716361

    אין מזל לישראל

    #1716339

    Joseph, it’s time to go to sleep.

    #1733011

    Joseph
    Participant

    If a father or brother is named Yehuda, can a newborn girl be named Yehudis?

    #1733039

    agutyar
    Participant

    The Sfardim use Simcha as a girl’s name.

    #1733040

    agutyar
    Participant

    Also Rav Simcha Scheinberg, Rosh Yeshiva Torah Ore, Jerusalem ,son of Rav Chiam Pinchas Scheinberg, also Rav Simcha Wasserman.

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