April 14, 2019 8:20 pm at 8:20 pm #1714545
How can it be a boy’s name if it’s a feminine noun in Hebrew?April 14, 2019 8:42 pm at 8:42 pm #1714568cholentandkugelParticipant
definitely a boys name but some nouns are yotzei min haclal and this is an example of itApril 14, 2019 8:42 pm at 8:42 pm #1714567ubiquitinParticipant
why can’t a feminine noun in Hebrew be a boy’s name?April 14, 2019 8:43 pm at 8:43 pm #1714566
Male or female:
NoamApril 14, 2019 9:13 pm at 9:13 pm #1714575
Simcha is definitely a GIRL’S name.April 14, 2019 9:58 pm at 9:58 pm #1714577ZionGateParticipant
Male or female:
RebbetzinApril 14, 2019 9:58 pm at 9:58 pm #1714578
Depends whether you’re Ashkenazic or Sefardic.April 14, 2019 9:58 pm at 9:58 pm #1714580
I’ve heard Simcha and Yona for both, but I never heard of Micha or Noam for a female.April 14, 2019 9:59 pm at 9:59 pm #1714588
Simcha is definitely a GIRL’S name.
It is also definitely a boy’s name.April 14, 2019 9:59 pm at 9:59 pm #1714590
Don’t be silly! Simcha was the name of many gedolim: R’ Simcha Rappaprt (which R’ Yonoson Eibshitz in Sefer Yeoras Dvash praises highly); Reb Simcha of Vilhozin, student of the GRA; and of course the Chofetz Chaim, R’ Meir Simcha of Dvinsk (plus countless others)!April 14, 2019 10:00 pm at 10:00 pm #1714602
In fact, Simcha id definitely a BOY’S name (and a “chidush” to use it for a girl’s name). We find nowhere in Tanach or Shas that any girl is called Simcha, but we DO find Simcha as a male name.
See Sukka 48b that there were two men heretics, one called Sosson and one called Simcha that were arguing whose name is “greater”,.. Simcha said the possuk says first his name: Layhudim hotsa ora v’simcha v’sosson…(see interesting debate).
The Machzor Vitri was written by Rabbeinu Simcha d’Vittara, a student of Rashi and grandfather of the SMAG.And Rabbeinu Simcha – the Baal Ha’Itur.
And one of the Baalei Tosfos was Rabbeinu Simcha, see tosfos Yuma 46b D”H Ki.
So I am on solid ground to state that SImcha is a male name, but where do you find support tostate that Simcha is a female name?!April 14, 2019 10:01 pm at 10:01 pm #1714616
RGP, you mean the Or Sameach.April 15, 2019 12:07 am at 12:07 am #1714618
I’ve heard Michal for a female.April 15, 2019 12:07 am at 12:07 am #1714620
Yes, that is what happens when I am doing three things at one time (cooking, learning a shiyur on line and posting)! And did I already put salt in the soup? And what’s with those meatballs!April 15, 2019 12:08 am at 12:08 am #1714623
Rebbitzen: גירסא דינקותא. That’s where. Much stronger than your piluplim.
Simcha is definitely a girl’s name. I know it’s a boy’s name but that’s plain strange. It’s a feminine word.April 15, 2019 12:09 am at 12:09 am #1714626
DY, to err is human, to persist is devilish (and signs of a Democrat), but to blame others shows managerial potential (and a true politician).April 15, 2019 1:44 am at 1:44 am #1714700
People, do yourself a favor and look up שמות גיטין in שולחן ערוך אבן העזר סי’ קכ”ט the בית שמואל clearly states that the name is for men and women. (As is the case regarding a few other names). Its irrelevant who uses the name more.April 15, 2019 7:17 am at 7:17 am #1714701
People do yourself a favor and look in the shulchan aruch ev”h 129 the beis shmuel says it is a name for men and women. (As is the case with a few other names) its irrelevant who uses the name more.April 15, 2019 7:35 am at 7:35 am #1714676
Likewise, the name Menucha is common for girls, yet the word menucha is zochor, as Rashi states in Yuma 81b D”H Tishbisu that “menucha” is loshon zochor. Yet, it is used commonly as a name for girls. Therefore, the word being zochor or nekeva is not determinative if the name is for a boy or a girl.One cannot judge by the word itself (that it is zochor or nekavah) to decide if the name is for a boy or for a girl.April 15, 2019 7:36 am at 7:36 am #1714690👑RebYidd23Participant
If there is a girl by that name, it’s a girl’s name. If there is a boy by that name, it’s a boy’s name.April 15, 2019 7:37 am at 7:37 am #1714695
Not my pilpulim, sources from seforim:
In Sefer Pada Es Avraham by the Gaon R’ Avraham Palagi (Mareches Shin, Os 19, Daf 22c) writes: ” To give a male the name “Simcha” is consistent with the psukim, but to do the opposite, to give a female this male name, one must wonder if it is permitted, since it is placing a male garment on a female (lo yiyeh kli gever al isha), because it causes confusuin among the genders.”
Although we find women named Simcha, it is a male name and as quotes, one must wonder if it is permitted – as this sefer writes.
As I wrote earlier, there were many gedolim, such as student of Rashi, Baalei Tosfos, the Or Samech etc. that were called Simcha. It is a man’s name that people. for whatever unknown reason, also use for women (not the other way around).To assert that it is a woman’s name and not a man’s name is factually incorrect.April 15, 2019 9:09 am at 9:09 am #1714757
Can two Simcha’s marry each other? It must’ve happened at least a couple of times over the last few thousand years.April 15, 2019 12:45 pm at 12:45 pm #1714898
Please meet my son’s: Tehila, Tova and ShiraApril 15, 2019 12:45 pm at 12:45 pm #1714897
Very interesting discussion.April 15, 2019 12:45 pm at 12:45 pm #1714891
Reb G. You wrote “and of course the Chofetz Chaim, R’ Meir Simcha of Dvinsk”. The Chofetz Chaim???? R’ Yisroel Meir Hakohen Kagan? Where is his name Simcha?April 15, 2019 12:45 pm at 12:45 pm #1714890
Yabia omer! I guess you never heard of Rabbi Simcha Sheps Tzatzal or Simcha Bunim of Peshischa Tzatzal or Y’LCT R’ Simcha Bunim Cohen (Rabbi Brog’s son in law).April 15, 2019 12:45 pm at 12:45 pm #1714884inmyopinionParticipant
The Chasam Soifer ztz”l had a daughter name Simcha.April 15, 2019 12:46 pm at 12:46 pm #1714793Uncle BenParticipant
Thank you Rebbetzin Golden, I have a close male relative named Simcha and this issue has bothered me for some time.
I remember when he was a bochur, a shadchan with a sense of humor wanted to redt a shiduch for him with a Yemenite girl also named Simcha!April 15, 2019 12:46 pm at 12:46 pm #1714869besalelParticipant
joseph: no they cant because ein me’arvin simcha besimcha!April 15, 2019 12:46 pm at 12:46 pm #1714873akupermaParticipant
both. One finds individuals of both genders with the name. I suggest giving a child with the name a middle name that is gender-specific so people won’t have to ask.April 15, 2019 12:58 pm at 12:58 pm #1714953
iacisrmma: What’s R’ Simcha Bunim Cohen’s father in law to you?April 15, 2019 1:21 pm at 1:21 pm #1714964
joseph: a Talmud chacham who was the son in law of R’ Avigdor MillerApril 15, 2019 2:47 pm at 2:47 pm #1715014
Joseph, the real shaylah is if the chosson’s name is Simcha and the kallah’s mother-in-law is named Simcha/
In such a case, is there a kedaida from Tzavas Rabi Yehuda HaChossid, that a chosson shouldn’t have same name as his father-in-law and kallah shouldn’t have same name as her mother-in-law?
Does it apply also across genders: kallah with the same name as father-in-law, chosson with the same name as mother-in-law?
It will be discussed in my soon to be published best selling sefer, מִבֶּ֧טֶן שְׁא֛וֹל (if my husband שאול approves the name because it is part of possuk ויענני מבטן שאול שועתי שמעת קולי).April 15, 2019 2:47 pm at 2:47 pm #1714992
iacisrmma – DY pointed out the error, I meant the Or Sameach – my fault for multitasking. I hope it did not cause you serious sefaykos in emmunah, a hezek in momonus, or problems in sholom bayis. If it did, please be mochel as I say Al Chet..
My twin daughter’s names are Avigayil and Avichiyal. I call them both Avi (efficient – one call gets them both).April 15, 2019 3:31 pm at 3:31 pm #1715068
Its not a problem, See טיב גיטין שמות נשים אות ב’ ס”ק אApril 15, 2019 5:08 pm at 5:08 pm #1715072yoseygParticipant
Talking about names: How about one of the Great Baaley Mussar Reb Simcha Zissel! (The Alter of Kelm)April 15, 2019 5:08 pm at 5:08 pm #1715107
besalel. I appreciate you sense of humor. אין מערבין שמחה בשמחהApril 15, 2019 5:08 pm at 5:08 pm #1715120
The Shevat Sofer, Rav Simcha Bunim Sofer ztz’l and Rav Simcha Bunim Ehrenfeld ztz’lApril 15, 2019 5:08 pm at 5:08 pm #1715128
We always found it amusing when we heard Simcha for a male.April 15, 2019 7:23 pm at 7:23 pm #1715160
The names were based on a story where the wife was mixed up with the mother in law. I don’t think it applies across genders since this ie not a comon occurence and we don’t suspect this. When it comes to men, the Chasam Sofer says , we should worry more to be a talmid chacham.April 15, 2019 11:02 pm at 11:02 pm #1715216
What about the name Mazal?April 16, 2019 7:19 pm at 7:19 pm #1716218
lasken – “The names were based on a story where the wife was mixed up with the mother in law.” Where did you get that fairy tale from?
Certainly not the Noda B’Yehuda Shu’t Even Ha’ezer II #79 (that discusses and discounts the Tzavah, saying it would only apply to Rabbi Yehuda HaChosid’s descendants).
Indeed, the Noda B’Yehuda also proposes that the concerns of Rabbi Yehuda HaChosid apply only to birth names or names given to sons at their bris, but do not apply to any name changes that take place afterwards. (This militates against the concern you mention of mixing up people- as such a “concern” would apply also to changed names that take place afterwards!)
Please do not spread misinformation, as Trump would call it Fake info.April 16, 2019 7:19 pm at 7:19 pm #1716200
Y.O , ask yourself, is it Mazal Tov or Mazal Tova? It’s Mazal Tov – masculine. But the masculine or the feminine form of the noun is not determinative if it is a boy’s or girl’s name.April 16, 2019 9:41 pm at 9:41 pm #1716296
Good point. It all build down to what you’re familiar with. For me, Simchas and Mazals were all women.April 16, 2019 9:42 pm at 9:42 pm #1716291
Rav Chaim would probably say she should change her name.April 17, 2019 1:12 am at 1:12 am #1716361
אין מזל לישראלApril 17, 2019 1:12 am at 1:12 am #1716339
Joseph, it’s time to go to sleep.May 26, 2019 9:19 am at 9:19 am #1733011
If a father or brother is named Yehuda, can a newborn girl be named Yehudis?May 26, 2019 10:24 am at 10:24 am #1733039agutyarParticipant
The Sfardim use Simcha as a girl’s name.May 26, 2019 10:24 am at 10:24 am #1733040agutyarParticipant
Also Rav Simcha Scheinberg, Rosh Yeshiva Torah Ore, Jerusalem ,son of Rav Chiam Pinchas Scheinberg, also Rav Simcha Wasserman.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.