July 15, 2012 11:35 pm at 11:35 pm #604121
siyum hashas certificate from Agudah
I saw an ad in Hamodia that for $36 you can get a certificate stating that you finished shas.
I was just curious why can’t they get some gedolim to sign it?
Will there be a black market for forged certificates?
What can u do with the certificate, do you take it with you to olem hames?
Last but the real question why are the charging $36 for this? If someone finished shas why not send it to them for free?July 15, 2012 11:50 pm at 11:50 pm #889187choppyParticipant
You can make exact copies for ~ $1.July 15, 2012 11:59 pm at 11:59 pm #889188thecuriousoneMember
@Getzel1: I think you may understand your “real question” if you put a few brain cells to work. Maybe people’s time (you know, the people that handle the phone calls, the printer, the editor, etc.) and shipping may be worth more than nothing?July 16, 2012 12:14 am at 12:14 am #889189zahavasdadParticipant
Maybe they are using it as a fundraiserJuly 16, 2012 12:20 am at 12:20 am #889190The FrumguyParticipant
I think that the certificate itself is without charge. Only if you want it framed & laminated is there a $36 charge. Please check it out.July 16, 2012 2:10 am at 2:10 am #889191WolfishMusingsParticipant
I think that the certificate itself is without charge. Only if you want it framed & laminated is there a $36 charge. Please check it out.
I believe that to be the case as well.
The WolfJuly 16, 2012 2:41 am at 2:41 am #889192ItcheSrulikMember
How do they check?
What is it worth if you already know you finished shas anyway?July 16, 2012 4:16 am at 4:16 am #889193
who will be signing it?July 16, 2012 7:26 pm at 7:26 pm #889194
i agree with youJuly 16, 2012 10:40 pm at 10:40 pm #889195golferParticipant
If, like getzel suggested, you can take the certificate to olam haemmes with you, do you think they can make one for the “wife-of-shas-completer” also? Lamma Nigarah?July 17, 2012 12:24 am at 12:24 am #889196
Take it to the Olam Shel Emes? What, HKBH can’t know that you finished Shas without it? (Actually, I feel like it might have some value in Olam Haemes. I feel like a Gemara in Bava Basra might say that.)July 30, 2012 5:49 pm at 5:49 pm #889197working harderMember
Does anyone have the link or phone number where i can get one from Agudah?July 30, 2012 6:04 pm at 6:04 pm #889198ima1997Member
Actually, I’d really like that info please. I’d get one to surprise my husband. I think he deserves something for completing Shas (2nd time, and starting again). It would also be nice for the kids to see.July 30, 2012 6:13 pm at 6:13 pm #889199
Ashrei misheba lekan vetalmudo byado. Make sure they bury you with your gemara lol.July 30, 2012 6:26 pm at 6:26 pm #889200RebRYMember
What good is the certificate? One thing I don’t understand is what is the big celebration for most of the people that finished shas through daf yomi? You cant learn a blatt gemura with an hour shiur a day with out alot of chazura and know it good. How many of these people remember what they learned in the beginning of shas in bruchos , shabbos and even the beginning of nida? There is a seder called Yisruel V’oreisa in Williamsburg that learns an amid a day then the one from yesterday, a week ago and a month ago and Shabbos and Yontif is off with no new amidim so you have a lot time for chazura. I ended Yevumos and the beginning of Kesivis with them and learned it pretty well.July 30, 2012 6:41 pm at 6:41 pm #889201
Isn’t there an explicit halacha against telling someone that you finished sh”as? You are supposed to avoid the question. In my opinion, having a certificate reeks of gayva. Besides that, why would a gadol sign a certificate when they can’t guarantee that the person who receives it actually learned every amoud? And besides that even, a very well respected Rosh Yeshiva and gadol who recently passed away, whom I will not name because of what people may say against him after hearing this, said… And I quote.. “Daf Yomi is mageyfah that’s destroying Torah in Klall Yisroel.”July 30, 2012 6:43 pm at 6:43 pm #889202
People should learn with the goal of understanding, not “finishing shas”.July 30, 2012 7:49 pm at 7:49 pm #889203yitzchokmParticipant
what’s your beef with the seyum? according to you, it’s not “learnt” well enough…… because???
and this other program you mentioned, what maks that better? will they remember all of Ms. Shabbos when they get to niddah?
I think this “certificate” is a very good idea (although a bit cheesy) for proud parents/children/wife to give to their parents, ect.July 30, 2012 8:28 pm at 8:28 pm #889204
Lets not make this into an anti daf yomi thread. That being said Curiosity is right. The ikkar is havana and remembering.July 30, 2012 9:05 pm at 9:05 pm #889205
Curiosity: You’re allowed to lie. I don’t think you have to.July 30, 2012 9:08 pm at 9:08 pm #889206apushatayidParticipant
For an extra $5 they will make it a bumper sticker and identify you as someone who finished shas at the top of mt. washington.July 30, 2012 11:40 pm at 11:40 pm #889207
Oy why does everything have to be cheapened with gimmicks?!July 31, 2012 12:49 am at 12:49 am #889208
Sam2, don’t you find that a bomb kasha? Chazal matir a chamur issur such as lying, which they barely even sorta, kinda, almost allowed for shalom bayis (you’re supposed to try to twist the truth – not straight up lie), and all for the purpose of not answering one specific question. And yet, you would still find it permissible to ignore that unprecedented heter and answer the question? Even Yitzchak when going to get the brachos from Avraham didn’t straight up lie, he twisted the words… FOR THE BRACHOS!!!.. but it’s still okay to lie to avoid telling someone you learned shas, and you say that you don’t have to avoid the question?
Am I totally missing something?July 31, 2012 5:48 am at 5:48 am #889209
With all due respect it was Yakov who stole Eisavs Bracha from his father Yitzchak.July 31, 2012 10:25 am at 10:25 am #889210
Lol.. Oops… brain slip. Thanks! As embarrassing as that mistake is, my point still stands.July 31, 2012 12:01 pm at 12:01 pm #889211dullradianceParticipant
Certificate? A certificate is in the house where only your friends and mechutanim would see it.
What we need is a bumper sticker “The driver of this car finished shas”.
Let your neighbors and friends know! Who needs a lexus – I have THE bumper sticker.
On a rightous note, let others think – if this fellow can do it, maybe I should try.July 31, 2012 12:58 pm at 12:58 pm #889212WhiteberryMember
Merchandising.July 31, 2012 1:40 pm at 1:40 pm #889213
A bumper sticker that says I finished Shas? What is this world coming to? Anyone who really finished shas wont want or need a bumper sticker.July 31, 2012 1:47 pm at 1:47 pm #889214golferParticipant
dullrad, are you for real?
If so, my suggestion: get the Mods to put you in contact with apushatayid. The extra $5 he charges is well worth it. His bumper sticker is by far the BEST!!July 31, 2012 3:05 pm at 3:05 pm #889215emanParticipant
Someone who has gone through Shaas should know that a Talmud Chochom can distort the truth when it comes to advertising his learning.
To put it on your car or in your house is not befitting a Talmud Chochom.July 31, 2012 3:36 pm at 3:36 pm #889216The little I knowParticipant
I just saw a kuntres that was distributed in shuls blasting daf yomi and the Agudah. It contained quotes from many gedolim, inlcuding the Kedushas Tzion of Bobov, The Satmar Rov, and many others. Within a few minutes, it was clear that this kuntres was nothing of ther than ???? ?????, and I lifted the pile and threw it into the garbage can. If someone does not want to learn daf yomi, that is okay with me. If someone holds a shittah that such learning is ineffective, they are entitled to their opinion. But to spend money, time, and energy to fight a kinus of Klal Yisroel celebrating the learning of Shas is kefira, and stands against Torah. I treated these publications the same as I would literature from the missionaries.
I hold the gedolim quoted in that kuntres in the highest of respect. What they said in their time is not relevant today, and disseminating those opinions today is unfair and dishonest, even offensive to the tzaddikim who spoke to their generation. I do not question their judgment. Just note when they spoke and to whom they did so.July 31, 2012 4:07 pm at 4:07 pm #889217zahavasdadParticipant
If nobody wanted any Kovod in the name of Torah, there wouldnt be names engraved on buildingsJuly 31, 2012 4:59 pm at 4:59 pm #889218working harderMember
I’m pretty sure ive heard the excuse of “you’ll never remember it anyway” oh yeah! thats right! its from the Yetzer hara. He tells it to me a 1000 times a day. eh, why go to minyan your soooo tired and will just mumble the words anyway. or “why open a sefer for two minutes on the bus, you’ll never remember it anyway” THE YEZTER HARAH.
correct, a yeshiva bachor should not ONLY learn daf yomi.
But anyone whos got the gall to say a working man who wakes up every morning, day in and day out before his workday to go to a daf yomi shuir, isnt doing great things and getting massive shcar, is clearly an AM HAHARATZ GADOL, who i would gladly like to show where he can put his worthless opinions.July 31, 2012 5:30 pm at 5:30 pm #889219apushatayidParticipant
“It contained quotes from many gedolim, inlcuding the Kedushas Tzion of Bobov, The Satmar Rov, and many others.”
How many of the Gedolim quoted in this kuntres are alive today and are able to speak for themselves? How many of the gedolim quoted have einiklech or talmidim alive today who are quite capable of telling us the opinions of the forebears and did not.
Let me guess, this pamphlet was put out by R’ Anyonymous Shlita.July 31, 2012 11:08 pm at 11:08 pm #889220
Dear workingharder, let’s please not lose our cool. Nobody claimed there’s no schar in learning daf yomi. The tainuh that many gedolim have against daf yomi is that it has cheapened the quality of limud haTorah in kllal Yisroel, and replaced it with hype, shtick, and superficial learning.
If you are someone who already knows how to learn then there’s no reason to spend your precious learning time skimming through a whole daf of Gemara. You should learn it properly, slowly, like a mensch, without skipping the havana and iyun- which is the ikar in learning.
Ela mai, you might be someone who isn’t well trained, and doesn’t know how to learn… Well instead of taking that little time you have out of your business day to go to a shiur that blows through a daf in an hour (which is the average daf shiur time), with little understanding, for the sake of “finishing Shas”, you should be going to a real shiur that trains you how to learn, and teaches you proper techniques in learning.
It’s not that there’s no schar in daf. There IS schar in daf, but you shouldn’t do daf for the same reason that yeshivah guys don’t have a seder for Tehillim recitations.July 31, 2012 11:24 pm at 11:24 pm #889221
Zahavasdad, there’s a difference. The certificate is a kavod offered to people with (alleged) knowledge of Torah, and names on a wall is kavod offered to people for financially supporting the learning of Torah. Either way, you get more schar if you avoid all kavod. You would think the first group would now be knowledgeable enough to know to refuse or avoid showing brandishing such a certificate, while there’s no reason to have this blanket assumption for the second group.July 31, 2012 11:48 pm at 11:48 pm #889222
Curiosity: Issur Chamur of lying? Look at the Rishonim around Kesuvos 17.August 1, 2012 1:07 am at 1:07 am #889223
Sam2 – I don’t have that gemara available with all the necessary rishonim where I am currently. Can you please remind me what they say? I remember hearing a shiur once about this sugya, and how midvar sheker tirchak is only for a specific situation according to Beis Hillel (dayonim, was it?). What source does it come down to lemaskana? Is it from veahavta lereeacha kamocha? I’ve forgotten the shiur, but I would be delighted if you could re-teach the hakk to me. Sam2, I enjoy butting heads with you. I get to relearn much hashkafa and Torah that I’ve forgotten from our back and forths… Like that Yaakov was the one who stole the brachos, not Yitzchak 😉 Hahahah! Joking about that specific one, but thanks!
Good night.August 1, 2012 1:36 am at 1:36 am #889224
Curiosity: If I recall correctly, the Rishonim discuss how Kallah Na’eh Vachasuda is allowed. I believe it’s the Ran who says there’s no Issur in lying. The only Issur is on Dayanim or in business. And Beis Shammai doesn’t allow that because they hold that institutionalized lying is Assur, even if normally lying isn’t.August 1, 2012 2:09 am at 2:09 am #889225dullradianceParticipant
didthedaf dot com is selling bumper stickers LOLAugust 1, 2012 5:11 am at 5:11 am #889226just meParticipant
For those that don’t believe in learning Daf Yomi:
I read that when the Chofetz Chaim heard about the idea of Daf Yomi, he said he saw the pages of the gemara that no one usually learned, dancing around the kisai ha kovod from joy.August 1, 2012 7:35 pm at 7:35 pm #889227
Sam2 – Thanks. I wonder how the Ran would learn the sugyas where Chazal have to matir twisting the truth when he holds lying isn’t assur in the first place. Do you know?
Just me – First of all, I don’t think it’s fair to pin our hashkafa vs. the Chofetz Chaim’s because it’s not really our hashkafa – it’s the hashkafa of various gedolim and roshei yeshivas; some of whom were talmidim of the Chofetz Chaim (ie: HaRav Dovid Leibowitz Ztz”l). Secondly, it’s not our tafkid to make pages of gemara dance. We’re supposed to learn Torah, not skim through it. Third,(and least relevant,) maybe the Chofetz Chaim was just making the best of a bad situation, like the chacham in the gemara who commented on the dead dog’s white teeth. Not that daf yomi is a dead dog, lol…
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