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- This topic has 30 replies, 14 voices, and was last updated 1 year ago by AviraDeArah.
May 29, 2022 11:57 am at 11:57 am #2091902
It is time for the United States to pay reparations to the descendents of slave owners.May 29, 2022 12:34 pm at 12:34 pm #20921581Participant
Why don’t you donate to a black cause rather than make people who had no one to do with it pay. Maybe Jews should get it for getting turned away before the Holocaust.May 29, 2022 1:31 pm at 1:31 pm #2092164yaakov doeParticipant
I’m still waiting for reparations from Spain for our expulsion in 1492. We probably have none coming from Mitzrayim because we emptied the country of riches when we left.May 29, 2022 1:31 pm at 1:31 pm #2092166
1: It was the US government who emancipated them without compensating their owners, who legally bought them at market value — and thus caused the owners to sustain a loss due to the governments action.May 29, 2022 1:31 pm at 1:31 pm #2092169Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipant
I thinkk we should donate 10% of the proceedings we got from Mitzraim. And Bavel. And Rome. And Spain. Germany. Russia, Syria, Iraq, Yemen. As this is a former British colony, can we get at least reparations for York? Maybe New York counts as one.May 29, 2022 1:31 pm at 1:31 pm #2092173Little FroggieParticipant
Why should Unites States do it? Did Unites States own a slave?May 29, 2022 2:31 pm at 2:31 pm #2092188
He’s talking about the descendants of slave owners who lost their slaves without compensation. The Slaves should of been bought out, not just freed. This is why the war shouldn’t have happened.May 29, 2022 2:31 pm at 2:31 pm #20921901Participant
UJM no it wasn’t the US government who emancipated them. Do you read? And the money comes from the Treasury — public funds — from you and I. If you want to help a black person, donate to one of their causes.May 29, 2022 2:31 pm at 2:31 pm #2092192
UJM, did they confiscate them? They just rendered it illegal.May 29, 2022 3:00 pm at 3:00 pm #2092202
Who would want to publicize that their ancestor’s owned slaves. Even if they could do they have proof as most records were probably destroyed during the war or in the over 160 years since the end of the civil war. It’s not like the WWII that ended just 77 years ago and there are still people that lived through it
Most people are children of emigrants who came after the civil war and even the ones who lived in the south very few were rich enough to afford slaves and probaly died out.May 29, 2022 3:00 pm at 3:00 pm #2092203
What about compensation for all the distruction when Sherman went through the southMay 29, 2022 3:01 pm at 3:01 pm #2092204
HaLeiVi: It is, at best, like eminent domain. In which case the government is legally obligated to compensate. The government cannot declare a property “illegal” and make it hefker. Otherwise it could render real estate property ownership in Connecticut to be illegal and declare it to be ownerless.May 29, 2022 4:52 pm at 4:52 pm #2092234
The government can and does make the sale of given products illegal; certain firearms, drugs, bombs, etc..zachin vos zennen a sach besser vi yenom…May 29, 2022 4:55 pm at 4:55 pm #2092232
There’s a machlokes if goyim can have a kinyan in other goyim as avadim; the government would have a “kim li” on those shitos, to retain their status as muchzak. You can’t be motzi mamon from them to the descendants of slave owners. Also, the slave owners didn’t expect reasonably to be reimbursed, so they were mochel even on the tzad that they’re entitled to it.
As was pointed out, melech poretz geder applies here – the government can take what it wants, when it wants, and doesn’t even have to reimburse you (according to manu shitos)May 29, 2022 4:56 pm at 4:56 pm #2092233
It could also be argued that the slaves lost all resale value once slavery was ended, since they couldn’t be sold anymore. The government has no chiyuv to allow the sale of a given item. The government then, was only mafsid them the value of the work they would have performed for the master, which is a grama….lechora.May 29, 2022 5:04 pm at 5:04 pm #2092245
Not sure where you are but I’m in Maryland and most people wouldn’t be embarrassed about their ancestors owning slaves as it wasn’t them and it was a different time. It’s like all the people here that are proud of their ancestors that fought for the Confederacy. I’m not sure why you think records are gone. The historical society often posts bills of sale for slaves. There’s also no reason most got destroyed. 160 years is not that long. I have a Shas that started being printed in 1865. So if that’s around and in pretty good shape from the year the Civil War ended there’s no reason other documents aren’t.May 29, 2022 7:05 pm at 7:05 pm #2092270
I live in NYC which is above the Mason Dixon Line while you live below the Mason Dixon line. Most Jews and I think most Americans came to the US after the civil war, Most slave owners were rich and most of them lost all their wealth by the end of the war and moved. If they were bto claim thrir ancestor were slave owners it would be difficult to prove, And they would open themselves up to lawsuits from the heirs of slaves. With art work that was stolen by the Nazis where the art work is entact and their are records of ownership in most cases the heirs don’t win so why do you think slave owner’s heirs will get anything when blacks haven’t got anything and they have a movement to get it for years.May 29, 2022 8:21 pm at 8:21 pm #2092292
Turns out a simple google search reveals that slaveowners received compensation for their loss of property after all..around 300 for each (which was a lot back then, obviously)May 29, 2022 8:22 pm at 8:22 pm #2092293hujuParticipant
The level of stupidity and immorality on this thread is remarkable. Let me try to explain why.
Slavery is an abomination, whether it is ancient Egypt, ancient Rome, or 18th Century England and its American colonies. Reparations are not payable to the owners because their “ownership” of other human beings is immoral, whether or not recognized by government. Any discussion or reasoning that does not recognize this fundamental principle about slavery is, at best, meaningless, and, at worst, well, … words fail me.
I think YWN would be well-advised to take down this thread, as the comments show no regard for Torah or any other moral system, nor any knowledge of history by the commenters.May 29, 2022 8:25 pm at 8:25 pm #2092307
I just can’t believe people wasted brain cells responding. I always have this dream that people will let the stupid threads die emptyMay 29, 2022 8:40 pm at 8:40 pm #2092310
You noticed disregard of Torah?May 29, 2022 8:40 pm at 8:40 pm #2092309justlookinginParticipant
Before we litigate what happened a century and a half ago, why don’t we start with more recent history? How about when the government decreed that tenants could squat on a citizens property without paying rent, and the owner couldn’t evict them?May 29, 2022 9:14 pm at 9:14 pm #2092315
I guess when Avrohom owned (literally, owned) Eliezer, it was stupid, immoral, and disgusting. No?May 29, 2022 9:14 pm at 9:14 pm #2092314
Huju – truly immoral; very stupid to quote halacha sources regarding a question of monetary law. How sad that issues of morality are…decided by… Hashem… disgusting, truly so.
Yes this was a troll thread, but it was also an interesting question. The point of the trolling is to trigger copy/paste goyishe responses like yours.May 29, 2022 9:24 pm at 9:24 pm #2092324
” The point of the trolling is to trigger copy/paste goyishe responses like yours.”
No, the point of trolling is to irritate and get under the skin of people and in Josephs case, as well as your at times, it is to pretend you are doing kiruv by insulting and irritating people who have been educated differently (and sometimes poorly and/or wrongly) but there is a lack of the skills that is present in those who are actually capable and qualified for kiruv. The skills of repect and genuine care for the Jew himself and his growth. This style more closely resembles slamming someone over the head with information you know they will find unsettling and then throwing them onto the subway tracks and telling them it’s too bad they weren’t zoche to grow up in your shadow.
not only is it not effective, it’s grossly ineffective and pushes more people away than it helps.May 29, 2022 9:25 pm at 9:25 pm #2092325
” The point of the trolling is to trigger copy/paste goyishe responses like yours.”
but if you find this explanation to be more comfortable for you, please, do tell where in this heilige reason there is an ounce of Torah.May 29, 2022 9:48 pm at 9:48 pm #2092328hujuParticipant
To Avira: I have no idea what your comment about my comment means. I am confident it is not because I am stupid.May 29, 2022 11:08 pm at 11:08 pm #2092338
huju: You aren’t stupid; but you are Jewishly ignorant.May 29, 2022 11:09 pm at 11:09 pm #2092341MarxistParticipant
Wow, @Syag Lchochma, you’re sharp and a good writer.May 29, 2022 11:58 pm at 11:58 pm #2092350
According to those that lived then you’re quite mistaken. In New York there was a Rabbi Raphall (who talked himself up to be bigger than he was) while supporting the Union said according to Judaism Slavery was OK. Baltimore had a Rabbi Illowy that supported the status quo on Slavery and backed the Confederacy. He was the biggest Talmud Chochem in America and we hold like some of his psaks today. The first Ruv in America was also in Baltimore. He didn’t say anything pro or against Slavery but I’d imagine if it was as immoral as you say he would of spoken up. 2 other middle of the road Rabbis spoke in general about peace even if it meant slavery continuing. There was one Rabbi in Baltimore that spoke out strongly against Slavery. That was the ultraliberal, ultraleftist Reform Rabbi. It seems from the Rabbis of that era your inline with the Reform Rabbi. You might want to reconsider
editedMay 30, 2022 1:24 pm at 1:24 pm #20925285TResidentParticipant
UJM: I’m a first generation American-born person. My parents were Holocaust survivors from Eastern Europe who came to the US in the late 1950’s. All of their ancestors lived in Europe. None of them ever owned an African slave. I never have either. Why should I pay reparations?May 30, 2022 2:07 pm at 2:07 pm #2092533
5TR: I agree that if your family didn’t own a slave that Lincoln emancipated then you shouldn’t be getting reparations.May 31, 2022 12:23 pm at 12:23 pm #2092794
As for the Torah view on slavery, back then and now, ancient version, Roman version or American, that is an entire different discussion which might or might not be a good idea to have.
If yes, let it at least be its own thread.May 31, 2022 4:20 pm at 4:20 pm #2092893
Halevi, it’s been discussed here before. It’s the highest madrega rhat an aino yehudi can hope for, as they keep mitzvos. It’s also a klalah representing ratzon Hashem for certain people who are uncontrollable and violent otherwise.
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