July 25, 2012 7:50 pm at 7:50 pm #604272dhl144Member
Hi Does anyone by any chance know where I can purchase WHite Snap Down (as oppose to button) Dress Shirts with Snaps instead of buttons? I like snaps much better then buttons much easier… anyone know where i can purchase those? for thirty dollars or less pls.. Thank you in advanceJuly 26, 2012 1:08 am at 1:08 am #888161TheGoqParticipant
I think its the same store that has the feety pajamas.July 26, 2012 3:57 am at 3:57 am #888162
Why do the white shirts of Chasidim, which otherwise looks exactly the same as Litvaks white shirts, have the buttons on the other side of the shirt?July 26, 2012 4:13 am at 4:13 am #888163
Ask one of those boro park tuna bagels who have the shtreimel with the trimmed bearded and cuff links which don’t match a shtreimel and bekishe.July 26, 2012 4:27 am at 4:27 am #888164yeshivishsocratesMember
in kabbalah, the right side represents midas hadin and the left represents midas haracham, the chassidim want to keep rachamim over din so they button the other way.July 26, 2012 4:31 am at 4:31 am #888165
Csar: Because that’s what the convention was hundreds of years ago. (I honestly think that to continue wearing shirts with buttons on the left side is a serious Safek of Begged Ishah.)July 26, 2012 4:50 am at 4:50 am #888166
Sam, yeshivishsocrates disagrees with your answer.
I recently bought a Chasidish white shirt, not realizing it was any different, and had a hard time getting my hands to button it.July 26, 2012 6:09 am at 6:09 am #888167🍫Syag LchochmaParticipant
Csar – I wear my dad’s old shirts and have the same problem.July 26, 2012 6:17 am at 6:17 am #888168shlishiMember
Isn’t there a halachic problem of a woman wearing a man’s shirts?July 26, 2012 6:27 am at 6:27 am #888169🍫Syag LchochmaParticipant
I was actually wondering who would be the first to say that.July 26, 2012 8:12 am at 8:12 am #888170
I think yeshivish got it right. So nobody gets confused the left side is midas hadin, I’m sure that’s what you meant.July 26, 2012 1:20 pm at 1:20 pm #888171
Shlishi: Usually there is. And vice versa. Which is why I think the Chassidish shirts with the buttons on the other side are extremely problematic.July 26, 2012 9:49 pm at 9:49 pm #888172
What exactly is the issue Sam? Begged Isha or Gever? And why?July 27, 2012 2:40 am at 2:40 am #888173
Sorry first my post was about the question about the snap shirts not the chasidish right over left shirts. Yes the reason is because of rachamim over din. I saw in the sefer Minhag Yisruel Torah that says everything is right over left except for pants because you got to give a little away for the sitra achra so he will leave you alone.July 27, 2012 3:13 am at 3:13 am #888174R.T.Participant
yeshivishsocrates — “in kabbalah, the right side represents midas hadin and the left represents midas haracham”
I think this is incorrect. The Sefira Chessed is on the right side, the Sefira Gevura is on the left side.
This is why we find many times in Halacha/Shulchan Aruch that the right takes precedence over the left (e.g., putting on shoes, etc…)
As for the reason why the buttons are switched on shirts for Chassidim; it stems from a halacha in Kitzur Shulchan Aruch, 3:2 and ibid not to replicate the styles of the non-Jews.July 27, 2012 3:31 am at 3:31 am #888175
Kozov: Men’s shirts have the buttons on the right side. Women’s have the buttons on the left. I was told that some Chassidish shirts have their buttons on the left side. Lich’orah that’s a problem.July 27, 2012 3:45 am at 3:45 am #888176apushatayidParticipant
Now I know why I wear t-shirts.July 27, 2012 4:00 am at 4:00 am #888177yeshivishsocratesMember
button orientation does not the sexual orientation of a shirt make. Its still a mans shirt because thats what it was designed to be.
As for conventional button orientation. The chessed over din thing is the reason for the chassidish deviation from the norm. Buttons, funny as it may sound are actually designed for to be easier for right handed people, we use our right hands to do the pushing of the button through the hole which is merely held by the weaker left – true story.
The female deviation from the norm originates with 19th century Victorian women. Women, who would be dressed by a servant, wouldnt fasten their own buttons. The button orientation was switched to accomodate the right handed servants who would now be able to mimic the motion on their own clothes, on the womens clothes.July 27, 2012 4:27 am at 4:27 am #888178
Those are the reasons I heard Chesed over Gevurah It was probably not Rachamim because Rachamim is Tiferes which is also on the right side, and to be different from the goyim. buttons are a newer invention. Rebishe shirts only have 3 buttons and slip over the head and don’t have cuffs just long sleeves without cuffs kind of like what a short sleeve shirt has but longer. The rebishe bekishes with the velvet down the middle have hooks (shtrokes) instead of buttons.July 27, 2012 4:34 am at 4:34 am #888179
Where can Rebbishe clothing (bekeshe, shirts, etc.) be purchased?July 27, 2012 4:45 am at 4:45 am #888180
You can buy the shirts in a dry goods store in Williamsburg, Boro park, Monsey or Monroe. The bekishes you can get at a Chasidishe clothing store like G&G or GB in Williamsburg, Boro Park, Monsey or Monroe.July 27, 2012 4:58 am at 4:58 am #888181
Sam first of all I think mens and womens shirts are different in any case. This has been a minhag for years and years dont know with which specific livushim though but possibly with shirts. The burden is on you to prove why continuing to wear clothes you have been wearing for forever fall under lo silbash. Its not mistaber bichlal. I hope you have a source because to just say its a serious safeik is a very controversial way of saying things and thinking. Did you ever even bounce it off some mavinim before formulating your opinion or you just relied on yourself? Because if not I think saying something like “I honestly think” is a bit too presumptious.July 27, 2012 11:56 am at 11:56 am #8881822qwertyParticipant
Armani exchange has it just not for that price.July 27, 2012 2:16 pm at 2:16 pm #888183
Kozov: I have Talmidei Chachamim who I discuss things with. As usual, some agree with me, some disagree, and some say “eh”. And are you saying that if my family has worn a certain shirt for hundreds of years, but nowadays the world practice changed so that only women wear those shirts that it’s not Beged Isha? Of course it is. Beged Ish and Isha are determined by what is done in your society, even by the Goyim. That’s why it can change. That’s why almost all contemporary Poskim allow men to look in mirrors.July 27, 2012 2:45 pm at 2:45 pm #888184R.T.Participant
RebRY — Thank you for sharing my points. But you should know, Tiferet is in the middle. Keter, Yessod & Malchut are also in the middle. Chochma, Chessed & Netzach are on the right, Bina, Gevura and Hod are on the left. And for those truly interested, Da’at is not a Sefira, simply the result of the unification of Chochma and Bina and sometimes thought of as the reverse or ‘back side’ of Keter (which as stated above is in the middle).July 27, 2012 8:27 pm at 8:27 pm #888185
Sam you didnt yet address what i first wrote. About what you did address i dont know the gdorim of lo silbash but how could you say society doesnt wear clothing that way when minei ubei people from that society still do wear those clothes? If youll say something like rov and miut the burden of proof is upon you to prove that that is the case.July 29, 2012 10:51 pm at 10:51 pm #888186dhl144Member
ty 2qwerty!! any1 else know where i can get the WHITE SNAP BUTTON DOWN SHIRTS??? wow talk about a change of topics!!!July 30, 2012 12:34 am at 12:34 am #888187ThePurpleOneMember
who makes mens shirts w left sided buttoning for the chassidish men?
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