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A close relative decided that I was in some need and left a $20 gift for me. I didn’t actually need it, and so I stuck the $20 back in her purse when she wasn’t looking.*
In the next few days, she once again dropped it off at my house when I wasn’t home — and once again, I took the $20 and returned it to her when she wasn’t looking.
After a short while, it became sort of a game where she would slip me the money when I wasn’t looking and I would return it to her when she wasn’t aware.
Eventually, I put a stop to it, but not before the money (not necessarily the same bill, of course) went back and forth over twenty times.
My question is this… assuming (just for the sake of simplicity) that it was exactly 20 times that I received the money — and that my house was koneh the money each time, do I now owe $40 for ma’aser, since I received $400 in gifts, even though, in the end, I got nothing** ?
The Wolf
* No, she is not the type who would get offended at my returning the gift or putting it back in her purse.
** The fact that I gave the same $400 in gifts during the same time period really has no bearing.
does one have to give maaser on a gift, b’chlal?
The side I would say that you don’t have to give maaser is that you were oker the kinyan chatzer by having in mind that you don’t want it so the money was never yours but as always ask your LORD (local orthodox rabbi – duh)
Well, you never have to pay taxes when receiving a gift.
I hate to nip such a fascinating conversation in the bud, but your house can not be Koneh for you against your will.
Wolf, this is the best thread since the grocery one.
Wolf – if you were koneh knowing that you will have the expense of returning it, I would assume you would not have to give masser. Just like one only has to give masser of profits.
Wolf:
That is why I was careful write “when receiving…”. The gift and estate tax is on the giver.
The amount you are referring to is 13k, and it is only taxed once it exceeds the lifetime cap of (currently) 1 million,
You never accepted the gift. So it was not yours to begin with. Ask your rov, but just because someone chooses to offer you something does not mean you must accept. IF you accept and are mchavein on its acceptance, that’s a whole ‘nother ballgame.
it could be that since you returned it it shows that you never had daas to acquire it and therefore dont need to pay
Wolf – Was that really your intention when you returned it? You had intention to give for the sole reason of being a gift (which I doubt). Or was your intention to return the money which you deemed you did not want to come on to?
You should give the $40 to the owner of the ice cream store.
in this case since you never actually accepted the gift, you would not have to pay taxes on itIf you accept a gift, it counts towards you income and would require you to pay tax on it. That is why some winners of game shows or other prizes may forgo on even accepting the gift this way they don’t count it as income and possibly get bumped into a higher tax bracket.
SO: Imho, in this case, it seems like you did not accept the gift, so it’s not considered like income to you, so you would not have to pay maaser.
You should give the $40 to the owner of the ice cream store.
What does that have to do with this?
The Wolf
Just a little joke – my way of saying that I don’t think you owe the money, as I felt on the ice cream question (someone responded to that one that it would be tzedaka).
The majority of the times, my intention when I returned the money it was almost akin to a juvenile (yes, I can act that way sometimes) “tag, you’re it.”
That’s precisely why I don’t think you owe the $ to maaser, but in this case, if you give it to tzedaka, you do get a mitzvah anyhow.
wolf – I dont understand you reply to me, please be more clear.
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