January 29, 2013 4:27 am at 4:27 am #607998WIYMember
Lately it has been bothering me that there are people often young people who come here and tell us a story and then ask for advice. Many well meaning people give all kinds of advice and even plant all kinds of ideas in the OP’s mind. This is all done WITHOUT HEARING THE OTHER SIDE. It’s assur for a Dayan to only hear one side of a story and it is common sense that when someone tells you a story about a normal person (not talking mentally unstable people or abusers and the like) there’s a whole other side to the story that you haven’t heard yet so how can you give advice and take this total strangers side without knowing if you are hearing the whole story?! Not trying to insult anyone but please when giving advice here assume you aren’t being told the whole story and don’t just jump on the OP’s side when the OP can be totally in the wrong and just portraying themselves as an innocent party in the matter.
There I feel better already.January 29, 2013 2:50 pm at 2:50 pm #925159HaLeiViParticipant
When giving advice you don’t say, “Well I don’t really believe you so you should do as follows.” Personally you shouldn’t swallow the whole story, but you are advising people what to do when they do believe themselves.January 29, 2013 3:40 pm at 3:40 pm #925160🍫Syag LchochmaParticipant
+1, especially with the young posters.January 29, 2013 4:10 pm at 4:10 pm #925161miritchkaMember
+1. However, if you read between teh lines, sometimes its a cry for help or attention which they arent getting. For example, if someone brings up that someone did something so terrible to them that they feel they arent worth living anymore, I’m not saying the story isnt real or that they are saying the whole truth, it could just be that they need validation that they are worth something. Sometimes reading between the lines is all we need to do.January 29, 2013 4:19 pm at 4:19 pm #925162anon1m0usParticipant
WIY: There is no obligation for one to hear both sides when dispensing advice. It’s advice, not a judgement. A judge is required to hear all parties.January 29, 2013 4:21 pm at 4:21 pm #925163yaakov doeParticipant
Talking in shul during davening – very often – very wrong!January 29, 2013 4:27 pm at 4:27 pm #925164WolfishMusingsParticipant
It’s assur for a Dayan to only hear one side of a story
This is the key reason that you are wrong. Indeed, a judge needs to be absolutely objective and fair. We, however, are not acting in the capacity of judges.
Someone giving advice, on the other hand, does not need to be absolutely objective or fair.
Or is it your contention that anytime anyone asks me for advice, I should say “sorry, I haven’t heard the other side so I can’t help you?”
The WolfJanuary 29, 2013 4:29 pm at 4:29 pm #925165ZeesKiteParticipant
I agree. Totally.
Same here, where one person can be accused, maligned, disgraced, smeared and vilified on the assumption and guess of one “in-the-know”.
And all attempts to reply have all been blocked and trashed.January 29, 2013 4:39 pm at 4:39 pm #925166nfgo3Member
The answer to the OP’s basic question is simple: While it is assur for a dayan to give an opinion without hearing both sides of a story, those of us in the Coffee Room are not dayanim – we are yentas and kibbitzers. Half the story is grist for our mill.January 29, 2013 4:52 pm at 4:52 pm #925167PosterMember
I agree with you and I used to keep thinking of that when I read some of these teenage rants about their teachers.
anon1m0us, you can give advice, but I cringe when posters start bashing the OPs teachers and rebbeim after only hearing one side of the story. Many times with your “advice” and “good intentions” you end up riling up the teenager even more than she/he herself already is for a situation that is totally one ended.January 29, 2013 5:02 pm at 5:02 pm #925168HaLeiViParticipant
There is one point to be made, though. When advising, keep in mind that it might not be the whole truth (don’t express it, but realize it) and don’t suggest doing things that will make things worse if it turns out that this person has a mistaken, or biased, picture.
For example, if you tell someone how to give it in to someone for being mean, and it turns out that the one you are talking to is the mean one, you only worsened the situation. I did not notice this here. This is just some, well, good advice.January 29, 2013 5:02 pm at 5:02 pm #925169☕ DaasYochid ☕Participant
I agree that we’re not dayanim. That having been said, I think that sound advice includes considering the fact that the other party perceives the situation differently.January 29, 2013 5:23 pm at 5:23 pm #925170miritchkaMember
Poster: as often happens with teens, they dont think straight and always think they are right. Sometimes my heart gets the better of me and i feel like i just want to comfort the teen and tell them it’ll be alright or shake ’em and tell them to wake up and smell the sunshine. But once it starts getting ugly, i keep my distance.January 29, 2013 6:49 pm at 6:49 pm #925171OneOfManyParticipant
Hi there, Syag! ^_^ ^_^ ^_^January 29, 2013 7:27 pm at 7:27 pm #925172supermeMember
I agree that sometimes people just need ADVICE on how to GO FURTHER WITH A SITUATION or they wantto know if someone has a source for something etc and it’s not halachily assur for someone to listen to one side and give advice bec 1) not lashon hara you have no idea who anyone on either side is 2) it’s just a little advice on lifes struggles. If you don’t like this or wants to know if this is allowed ask a shailahJanuary 29, 2013 9:31 pm at 9:31 pm #925173oomisParticipant
The point you make could be valid, depending on the situation. O don’t agree that all requests for advice require hearing two sides of an issue. We have had people ask for advice in feeding their babies, how to go about dealing with celiac disease, if we have to give our in-laws kovod, should FFBs go out with Baalei Teshivah, etc. These are issues that might or might not require looking at all sides, but opinions may abound that could be helpful, even when you only have a little information. There is a great deal of wisdom in the CR (as well as shtuss, at times). So you need to be boreir and pick and choose what resonates with you, and ignore what does not. For all other things always ask your LOR.January 30, 2013 1:20 am at 1:20 am #925174supermeMember
Exactly oomis some just also need a listening ear and some don’t need two sides foe the story. If anyone wants to read mre about this read NOT APPROPIATEJanuary 30, 2013 1:41 am at 1:41 am #925175Torah613TorahParticipant
I agree with WIY, but that would take a lot of the fun away from the website.
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