Son's best friend otd

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  • #613901

    adams
    Participant

    I found out very recently my son’s childhood best friend is otd.

    ages about very early 20s. My wife feels we should encourage our son to not have much to do with his friend. It seems my son wants to be Me Karev him.

    There is some drug use but only admitted to MJ at this point. not sure if this is only one. I suspect perhaps wrongly, that once someone starts experimenting, as a young person, they are more apt to try harder choice but i have no real info on that.

    I tend to think one should keep the doors open etc. but my wife may know our son better, that he could be influenced rather than influencing.

    Our son is Shteiging in Yeshiva in EY but in contact with his friends here. the strange part is that, in high school, several of his friends left the derech then, but his core group was very frum, always in SHule, participating in Davening etc. and this out of the blue. the other boys are a bit angry at the otd one ( i do hate the labeling). It seems some things were very very public maybe that is why.

    #1035890

    ivory
    Member

    Don’t yell! It’s not always so black and white! How will you enforce your son keeping away from him if he wants to keep in touch? Maybe he WILL be a positive influence over him?

    #1035891

    ivory
    Member

    Why is my post going before the earlier one?

    http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/-1-years

    #1035892

    Yatzmich
    Member

    YOUR WIFE IS RIGHT.

    KEEP YOUR SON AWAY LIKE THE PLAGUE. THERE IS NO BENEFIT THAT YOUR SON CAN HAVE FROM THIS RELATIONSHIP. ONLY DETRIMENT.

    LEAVE THE “MEKAREV” TO PEOPLE OLDER & WISER.

    (CAPS INTENTIONAL)

    #1035893

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    You should not be telling your son in his 20s who he can and cannot be friends with. If he asks your advice, that’s one thing — but you cannot order him around with regard to his friends.

    The Wolf

    #1035894

    oyyoyyoy
    Participant

    It’s true that mj is more common but i know some guys that do stop there. I dont know how YATZMICH knows that this connection that your son has with this boy isnt worth anything. It’s possible that he’s a strong link for the way back and shouldn’t be ignored.

    Your son being in EY means it would probably harder for this boy to drag him down from so far away. Also, depending on how old and mature your son is the less fragile he is. Mothers sometimes see their children as the little boys they once were, not the young adults they are now.

    I’m not saying your wife’s side is wrong; fakert, people dont always understand the dangers that should be taken into consideration. Just dont “KEEP YOUR SON AWAY LIKE THE PLAGUE”.

    #1035895

    teebee48
    Participant

    How is he going to be Mekarev him? he is 20 years old and can’t answer questions that this person has and is not really interested in hearing answers.

    In my humble opinion if he want’s to keep in touch with him and not lose a best friends relationship that would be something which would be up for discussion.

    #1035896

    Yatzmich
    Member

    Black & white? What does that have to do with the OP’s question?

    He wants to know if he should allow his son to befriend his OTD friend. And the answer is, no, stay away like the plague. And yes, YELL IT OUT TO EMPHASIZE THE POINT. There is NO BENEFIT, I repeat, NO BENEFIT to the son in upkeeping a relationship with a close peer that is into drugs and the L-rd knows what else.

    I agree, it’s sad that this happened, but for the son’s sake DISCOURAGE him from maintaining this relationship.

    #1035897

    ivory
    Member

    He’s not befriending him. He’s already his friend ( to be nitpicky). And there’s usually no way of discouraging an adult to not be friends with someone if he wants to stay in the relationship. He dues my need to have the kiruv answers cause most likely the friend doesnt have any questions. And a solid happy frum friend might be beneficial to him in the long run.

    #1035898

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    You should not be telling your son in his 20s who he can and cannot be friends with. If he asks your advice, that’s one thing — but you cannot order him around with regard to his friends.

    The Wolf

    Should you be telling the OP how he should or shouldn’t deal with his son?

    #1035899

    Yatzmich
    Member

    A friendship is a two way relationship, jus like any other relationship. Both sides need to get something out of it.

    Can anyone please tell me the benefit that the son will have out of this relationship?

    (BTW, my son’s best friend went OTD, and yes, I was advised by Gedolim to discoursge my son from having anything to do with him. And boy am I happy that I listened. Other kids that said, “No, we have to be nice to him” are now right there with him, while my son K”H is shteiging away.)

    #1035900

    oyyoyyoy
    Participant

    he is 20 years old and can’t answer questions that this person has and is not really interested in hearing answers.

    You just answered your own question. I doubt this otd boy is a philosopher and doesn’t believe in hashem because it doesnt make sense. He probably has some issues- hard life and whatnot. Kiruv isnt only about debating.

    #1035901

    LanderTalmid
    Participant

    If his rebbe in EY agrees he might be able to keep an eye on him and answer his questions

    #1035902

    Yatzmich
    Member

    I agree that the OTD may gain from the relationship, but what will the son of this person have from it? A relationship needs to be two way, similar to a marriage, I guess. When one has something from it and the other doesn’t, “doesn’t” feels used and the relationship will fail. In our case, you’re opening up the possibility for the frum kid to save the relationship by bringing himself down to the level of the OTD, and that’s a disaster in the making

    #1035903

    adams
    Participant

    the question is, can the young man be turned back to frumkeit, if its so reason that he has for lack of a better term, come out as frei.

    #1035904

    YITZCHOK2
    Participant

    I believe that the advice from Yatzmich should not be followed! There are a lot of details that you are leaving out. What kind of relationship does your son have with this friend? If your child is in his 20s will he listen to you if you tell him to stop? If he is a normal 20 year old he will not and might actually hide from you his friendship where you can be the positive influence and instead be drawn down by his friend. My advice is NEVER TAKE ADVICE FROM RANDOM PEOPLE ON THE INTERNET! Go with your son to someone who deals with otd kids ( not Gedolim who would answer the question without telling you to go to an expert. My experience has been that most Gedolim will send you to an expert) and let your son describe his relationship with his friend and then follow that experts advice! Good luck!

    #1035905

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    Should you be telling the OP how he should or shouldn’t deal with his son?

    In this respect, yes. There are tasks that are appropriate for a parent to do at some ages that they should not do at other ages.

    The OP should not strap his(?) 20-something year old son into a high chair for meals.

    The OP should not enforce an 8:00 PM bedtime for his 20-something year old son.

    The OP should not picking out his 20-something year old son’s daily clothing.

    And the OP should not be picking and choosing his 20-something year old son’s friends.

    The Wolf

    #1035906

    oomis
    Participant

    Nothing is glatt in this situation. SOME 20 year old boys have the wisdom and maturity to be able to retain an open door with such a friend, and even potentially influence them positively. Others ABSOLUTELY cannot and should not remain in such a friendship, because they themselves are easily influenced. You have to know your child and his kochos.

    Sara Emeinu saw Yishmael acting in a way that was detrimental to Yitzchak and took immediate steps to distance them from each other. Avraham Avinu didn’t want to send Yishmael away (i.e. if you break off your son’s friendship of many years), but Hashem told him explicitly to listen to all that Sara said.

    This boy is not a Yishmael chas v’sholom, and your son is not Yitzchak Avinu. But you are wise to be concerned, while at the same time you should recognize the potential your son could have to remain a stable, positive influence in this boy’s life. I don’t have an easy answer for you, but keep the lines of communication with your own son open.

    #1035907

    golfer
    Participant

    And the OP should not be asking anonymous strangers on the internet for advice on an issue that will have far-reaching ramifications on at least two lives.

    If the OP has a good relationship with his son, they can have an honest, open discussion on the topic without the OP/parent forbidding or threatening or commanding his son to take any specific course of action.

    #1035909

    sm29
    Participant

    Whether or not he should stay friends, let him know to be careful. People can sometimes say things that poison emunah G-d forbid. He should know that if he wants to be a good friendly influence, he needs to be careful to not be sucked in. If he finds he is, he needs to stop immediately

    Kol tov

    #1035910

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    In this respect, yes. There are tasks that are appropriate for a parent to do at some ages that they should not do at other ages.

    But if you’re not a parent (I am assuming that you’re not the OP’s parent), then it is appropriate to tell someone how to deal with their child?

    You’re not being consistent.

    #1035911

    Joseph
    Participant

    +1 to everything Yatzmich wrote.

    #1035912

    ivory
    Member

    Whoever yells the loudest wins?

    #1035913

    DaMoshe
    Participant

    DaasYochid, there’s nothing wrong with giving the OP advice. After all, he came here looking for it, didn’t he? He’s not required to listen, but when he wants advice, why not give it to him?

    #1035914

    BarryLS1
    Participant

    My first inclination is to try to help the friend, but I don’t know your son and if he is capable of handling it. What is your wife’s objection? That may give more insight.

    The are many reasons someone may go off the derech, including some kind of trauma. If that is the case, you really need a very qualified person to deal with it.

    #1035915

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    DaMoshe, I agree, but that’s not my point.

    #1035916

    showjoe
    Participant

    DY: then what is your point? the two cases are not comparable b/c in adams case, his son didnt ask for advice, so WolfishMusings is telling him not to get involved, but adams did ask for advice, so why shouldnt WolfishMusings give him some?

    please clarify

    #1035917

    northwardb
    Member

    How does treating people (it’s not just kids) wrestling with OTD issues (not monolithic) like they were metzoraim help the situation? Such treatment merely reinforces whatever prejudices and sense of alienation they have.

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