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  • #1907842
    yumbumdeedum
    Participant

    were you ever spanked as a child wgat effect did it have on you

    #1908145
    1
    Participant

    Every child gets. Sometimes it’s deserved; most times it only works short term.

    #1908169
    besod emuna
    Participant

    I was. It caused me to stop doing bad behavior and start acting good

    #1908186
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    It should be done from love and not hate then it will bear fruits. כי כאשר ייסר איש את בנו ה’ אלקיך מיסרך the way a man admonishes his child Hashem your G-d admonishes you.

    #1908185
    Tachles1
    Participant

    Yeshiva.co has a short write up about this with halachic sources:

    Question
    It is my understanding that many Torah authorities urge parents to refrain from this Spanking ones children.
    If it is permitted currently, are boy children, to be treated differently than girl children? If yes, why? If no, why not?
    Any good works available on this subject?

    Answer
    There is no blanket halachic prohibition against spanking one’s children for educational reasons (Rashi Masechet Makkot 8a; Shulchan Aruch HaRav Hilchot Nizkei Guf VaNefesh, article 4). The Vilna Gaon (commentary on Proverbs 19 18-19) writes that one should not spank his children when he is very angry so as not to punish them more than is necessary to achieve an educational purpose. The halacha forbids cruelty and requires that only a minimum amount of force, if and when necesssary, be used (see Shulchan Aruch Yoreh Deah 245 10 and Pitchei Teshuva Choshen Mishpat 424 4).

    The link is: https://www.yeshiva. co/ask/737
    I understand that the mods might remove the link, but I wanted to properly give credit.

    Disabled but not removed 😊

    #1908196
    Shmili_OOngar
    Participant

    Spanking is better for the child than yelling at them. If you spank a kid, he will feel bad and realize they did something wrong, and then you can comfort them and say you love them, and they will see that. If you yell at a child and make them feel terrible, even if you console them after, they will still feel terrible

    #1908914
    johnklets
    Participant

    yes

    #1908948
    johnklets
    Participant

    I agree totaly with Shmily O Ongar

    #1908953
    johnklets
    Participant

    I was spanked at home only a handful of times, but one of them is realy memorable and had a big good effect on my behavior for years. I was close to 9 years old when i got 5 or 6 hard smacks on my backside on the bare skin, it took only a few seconds and i was realy crying. I just wonder if this method is appropriate according to tznius and derech hatora, all i can tell you it is very effective and safe. My question limited only to parents spanking their own kids.

    #1908980
    takahmamash
    Participant

    I was never spanked, as far as I remember. My kids were never spanked. B”H, we all turned out OK despite lacking this apparently essential part of life.

    #1909264
    Sam Klein
    Participant

    Some people get their malkes in this world and some other wait until the olam haemes until they get it R”L

    let’s pray that each person is finished with his punishment COMPLETELY before s/he is removed from this temporary physical world and brought up to the true world so they don’t have to C”V go through any additional punishment.

    May we all stay away from sin altogether and avoid punishment in the first place to begin with.

    #1909297
    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    @1
    Always so sure, always so wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    “EVERY CHILD GETS…………………”

    You have no universal knowledge and post a lie.

    My parents never once spanked their children, Mrs. CTL and I have never spanked our children, and to the best of our knowledge, our children have NEVER spanked our grandchildren.

    #1909371
    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    Before you physically strike a child, step back and talk to your rav or a frum professional you trust as to why you feel such a need. There are multiple peer reviewed studies showing that those who “spank” their children were themselves abused as children. דאָס עפּעלע פֿאַלט ניט װײַט פֿון בײמעלע

    #1909422
    catch yourself
    Participant

    I was spanked as a child. I don’t think it made much difference in how I turned out. It certainly did not fix the immediate problem my father wanted to stop.

    My wife and I do not hit our children.

    It is not better to hit than to yell. Both are wrong and ineffective, with very few exceptions.

    It is better to allow children to suffer the consequences of their poor decisions. I do not mean to mislabel punishments as “consequences”. If a child makes a mess, s/he should have to clean it up. A child should know that if s/he doesn’t do what is expected, s/he won’t be able to do what s/he wants to do (play with friends, go on trips, etc.). Parents should express empathy while their children deal with these problems, but they should not “rescue” them.

    Suppose that Chaim disregards his father’s instructions to wear a coat, and now Chaim is uncomfortable. Chaim’s father could [sincerely] say something like, “Oy, Chaim, I feel so bad that you’re cold. I’m also cold when I don’t bring my coat.” Dad should not buy him a new coat, or go back home to get his coat for him. Odds are that next time, Chaim will wear his coat.

    This will work much better than spanking Chaim yelling at him, both of which will stop him from learning the real lesson he should learn, and instead provide him a scapegoat for his discomfort.

    #1909536
    RR44
    Participant

    When my older brothers were in school [1970s and 80s children were spanked on their bottoms – often for very little reason.
    When i was a kid they decided to bring a new guy who thought he understood chinuch so he cut down a bit on the spanking and instead invented a whole bunch of different torture including making children walk round the block without shoes, spenidng time stuck under tables, or sitting without a chair – or any combination.

    At any rate i 100% sure that i came way better than my brothers – so you can draw your own conclusions….

    #1909559
    mashgiach101
    Participant

    i have two neighbors one potches and one doesnt … potching works

    #1909777
    johnklets
    Participant

    This whole concept of consquences instead of punishment is a comes from the modern world where not punish children has become a religion. when you tell a child to put on a coat and he doesn’t he might learn from consquences to put on a coat nextime. However he did not learn to listen to his parents for the sake of it, our goal is not to make him put on a coat for life, it is rather teaching him to obey parents as kibud av vaem, and thats not achieved by qonsquences.

    #1909988
    commonsaychel
    Participant

    I had a rebbe in kittah hay who use to spank hard on the tush, one day a boy wore corduroy pants and found out that the petch does not hurt if your wear corduroy, the stores sold out of corduroy pant in days.

    #1910034
    Chaim Shulem
    Participant

    I was spanked all the time. Very hard. Usually my parents did it out of complete anger. It totally made me a better person. Kids these days are weak crybabies.

    #1910178
    jkotl0327
    Participant

    You are providing a trivial example. You should not spank for that, but what if a kind commits a cheit gadol? The kind strikes the momeh for example. Then the only choice is to spank.

    #1910050
    johnklets
    Participant

    To Common Shaichel: You and your friends had more mazel then shaichel – what if the rebbe would notice that the petch does not hurt anymore and decide to just take down the pants before spanking ? then it would have hurt triple

    #1910300
    RR44
    Participant

    to jkotl0327

    If a child does a chait godoil stick to the shoe confiscation idea.

    At least it does not serve as a way for the rebbe to release his kaas.

    Or better try suspension….

    #1910374
    commonsaychel
    Participant

    @Johnklets,
    the boy with the pants was wailing the whole time that the rebbe should not notice, he told us at lunch

    #1911508
    johnklets
    Participant

    To RR44

    There is nothing more effective then petsh, and because it is so effective if it is given to often it loses the whole effectiveness.., so by a chet gadol there should be a good potching and by smaller things it can be suspension (or shoe confiscation if you like so much that idea..)

    #1911524
    flowers
    Participant

    A parent should always evaluate if they are spanking their child out of anger or yelling excessively at their child (and ends up feeling bad after, because they realize they were wrong) should go for help before everlasting damage is done to their child. It doesn’t mean the parent is bad, rather it may be because of abuse in their own upbringing, their own shame, or their current circumstances that are causing them to be stressed or overwhelmed.

    The child should not have to suffer. Go for help. You won’t regret it. If you don’t go for help, you may regret it big time.

    #1911561
    The little I know
    Participant

    Most of these discussions are silly. What worked for one parent or rebbe might not work for another. There are also halachos here, some of which were recorded in prior comments. Additionally, there are hadrachos from our contemporary gedolim that are useful. It is easy to generalize from one situation to another, to create rules from certain experiences, to use specific instances to conclude a self-made halacha. These are all follies, and שומר נפשו ירחק מהם. None of us were trained in parenting before having children, and it is the exceptional rebbe who received training in such matters before being hired to teach in a classroom.

    Petch is not intended to cause pain, as is clear in the gemora. It is to make a point in action that failed to transmit in words. In a wide variety of seforim on the halachos of chinuch, relevant to parents and mechanchim, there is a wealth of wisdom from Gedolei Yisroel throughout the generations. It is clear that the potch that punishes is not the one that teaches. That is clearly outside of the potch that is muttar in halacha. The first potch, under a list of conditions may be permitted (not necessarily recommended). The second one is a physical assault, and is a violation of Torah Law.

    There are many more aspects to this that provide fodder for lively discussion. I have no problem with anyone attacking what I wrote. I did not contrive anything. Everything came directly from our Torah giants. If anyone wishes to move this thread into a debate, I respectfully ask that one provide direct references from the seforim of halacha. If we go there, I will share direct quotes supporting every word I wrote.

    #1911592
    yytz
    Participant

    I was only spanked once or twice and I don’t think it affected me.

    But that was then. This is now.

    Many rabbis have said human nature has changed and spanking no longer works in improving behavior. Instead, it just makes them worse.

    This is supported by modern psychology; a number of studies show spanking makes children more aggressive, violent and angry over the long term.

    It may seem absurd for the Israeli government (I think it was a court decision) to ban spanking.

    But Rav Shalom Arush explains that since spanking is no longer effective, Hashem arranged for it to be illegal to take this method of discipline away from us.

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