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What are your thoughts on an 18 year old bochur (normal intelligence) who talks during kadish? How unusual is that, and what would you say the level of his yiras shamayim is?
Personally, since I used to say kaddish, I know that when I would say kaddish and people would talk while I was saying kaddish, it would hurt my feelings, as I was saying kaddish for one of my parents, and these people couldn’t even have the decency to be quiet!? Obviously this does not answer your question, just making a point.
Just as wrong as someone walking in front of someone reciting Kaddish.
Whenever someone is reciting Kaddish, it is an Absolute No No to pass in front of the Kaddish reciter. One should imagine that there is solid glass wall in front of the Kaddish recite, and one simply cannot walk through glass.
I am shocked by how much disregard of this Halocho which I witness.
I am also shocked by people who sit during Kaddish, including even a Kaddish after a standing up prayer, whereby it is even more mandatory to stand up for that Kaddish.
I believe that it’s even worse than taking during kedusha. Unfortunatly it’s a common practive in many shuls and one could assume that the 18 year old learned this bad habit from his elders. I would assume that once he’s made away of the severity of the avairah he’ll stop.
147
As far as I know there is no such halacha. I believe that it is actually 100% mutar to walk in front of someone saying kaddish. A lesser known and almost universally violated halacha (yes I know there are some shvach shmeteirim) is the walking infront in the 4 amos of one davening shemoneh esrei.
broom and shovel
Considering that many people who recite kaddish recite it like its a chore and likely dont have a blazing clue what they are saying and that there are adults and sometimes even choshuv looking ones talking during kaddish I have a hard time blaming an 18 year old for talking. Hes just going with the flow. SADLY.
Why would any frum Yid want to be so disrespectful in Shul, and to someone who has lost a family member?
It is a huge aveira. First of all, if it is an aveil’s kaddish, it is disrespectful to both the mourner AND to Hashem. Second, someone is affirming Hashem’s greatness, and some boor has to TALK at that moment??? I knwo that whatever I am doing when I walk into my Shul, if I hear Kaddish, I stop in my tracks and answer amein. I go to a shiur once a week at night right after the men daven maariv, so I typically hear Kaddish being said more than once. Though I am not in the minyan obviously, I stand up, stop my conversation and respond appropriately to the Kaddish.
My Rov told me there is written somewhere in E”Y on a stone or something, that one who talks during Kaddish loses all bracha (meaning gets a k’lala chas v’sholom). Has anyone ever heard of such a thing?
I am also shocked by people who sit during Kaddish, including even a Kaddish after a standing up prayer, whereby it is even more mandatory to stand up for that Kaddish.
Sfardim do not stand for Kaddish if they had been sitting when the recitation began.
Several of the points in earlier comments are well taken. Not stopping to answer Kaddish or engaging in conversation that is potentially disturbing to others are wrong. No one can argue. I struggle to understand the use of the CR to complain against an individual, even if anonymously. We have deteriorated to a level of being busy complaining about others. Have we been at the level of perfection in keeping our side of the street clean? Why are we always busy with the spiritual level of others. I have heard elders say, quite rightly, that we should be busy with “yenem’s gashmiyus” to insure they have what to eat and how to subsist, and “dem aigenem’s ruchniyus” one’s own spirituality. It appears that our generation has veered far from this.
If someone is talking in shul, I feel it is needed to just politely and simply ask him to stop from being disturbing. Today, it is common to witness at least one person adopting the position as “G-d’s policeman” and yelling at talkers, shaming them without the need to do so. What they might have accomplished with silencing the improper talk was lost in the aveiro of public shaming – malbin pnei chaveiro b’rabim. There needs to be a more pleasant way to accomplish the goal without committing more aveiros in the process.
whats more important is a lot of people dont know is that kaddish is always connected to something either a tefilllah or learning or after smoneh esreh you are not allowed to come to shul and just start saying kaddish without hearing divrei torah or davening.
WIY, a corollary to not walking in front of someone saying shemoneh esray is not to park yourself in a position that inconveniences people when you start shemoneh esray. I’ve encountered people saying shemoneh esray in doorways, by the bookcase where the siddurim are, in the hallway that leads to the bathroom, etc. This is when there are plenty of other spots available.
WIY-the shiur for walking in front of someone isnt 4 amos. its kmlo einav.
Toi.
4 amos check O.C. 102:4.
yehudayona
“doorways, by the bookcase where the siddurim are, in the hallway that leads to the bathroom”
They have no business being there. Additionally people have no business davening in aisles. One may only Daven at an official “spot” an aisle is not a spot. You cant just “pull up” anywhere and drop a shemoneh esrei. Halachically you may walk in front of such people and even lift them up and move them out of the way. But its best to try not to start a fist fight in shul.
dafyomi2711:- You made an important point too.
Another Halocho about Kaddish which is virtually unknown is the original Takonno, that Kaddish is to only be recited by 1 individual at a time. Having multiple people recite Kaddish at a time is only a concession, and leads to numerous Halachic issues, most significantly that when the reciters don’t remain in unison, it becomes 1 big jumble, and if some of them are not responded to or don’t have 10 people hearing them, are not even Yotze Kaddsih at all.
WIY- if you look in sif katan ches, he says that oolay its ossur to stand in front of a mispallel kmlo einav cuz youre mivatel kavanaso.
Toi
Thats not halacha lemaysah its an oolay. Lemaysoh we hold only 4 amos.
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