October 4, 2013 9:11 pm at 9:11 pm #610802
There is a certain yeshiva in the monsey area that is known to treat people who donate money to the yeshiva on a higher level than those who dont give that substantial a donation, mostly because they cant. This school also claims to be very anti bullying and internet use. But my nephew told me a story about a kid in his class, who is known to be very rich, was bullying a kid and spoke about pritzus he saw on the internet in class and nothing happend to him. Another story was of a kid, also known to be rich, cell phone rang during school in 5th grade. The rebbi didnt take it away, phones are forbidden in this yeshiva,but rather answered the phone and told the telemarketer to stop calling the number and gave it back.October 6, 2013 1:33 am at 1:33 am #983148
That’s every yeshiva/day school. I went to modern schools for elementary and high school and the rich kids never got suspended or in any real trouble bc then maybe the parents would stop giving money to the school or give less. That’s how life worksOctober 6, 2013 1:44 am at 1:44 am #983149
yes this is a serious issueOctober 6, 2013 3:41 am at 3:41 am #983150
and should be dealt with by the gedolimOctober 6, 2013 4:08 am at 4:08 am #983151
money tlks. and money is a big nisayon. for people who have money its hard but important to raise children who don’t feel like they own the world and are entitled to everything and can do whatever they want without ramifications. you find that very rarely.October 6, 2013 4:41 am at 4:41 am #983152
How do you know what did or didn’t happen to the bully? How do you know the kid with the phone didnt have extenuating circumstances that had been worked our beforehand? You want, when its a rich kid, that the punishment is broadcasted so everyone knows that the rich kid got proper treatment. So you want him to get worse treatment than everyone else.
Anyway those kids are the reason that your kids can go to that school. Jewish schools function, not through tuition but through fundraising. If the rich parents wouldn’t fill in the gaps (and then some) the not rich parents would be forced to pay full tuition. It doesn’t excuse raising kids to feel privileged for nothing they did but it does make you understand why a school would want to keep those parents happy.October 6, 2013 5:49 am at 5:49 am #983153
interjection, how can u defend the rich kids getting preferential treatment just because they give more $$? it is obvious when a poor kid does something wrong and receives a public punishment that everyone knows and sees but when richie rich does the same thing he is treated with kids gloves and favoritism not given to others?October 6, 2013 8:33 am at 8:33 am #983154
Adam I didn’t defend anything. What might have seemed to you like I was justifying giving better treatment to some kids was just me explaining why you should mind your own business. You’re not the kids mashgiach and it’s not up to you to decide if each kid got proper treatment. I was a secretary in a boys school and if a kid did something wrong it was dealt with. Sometimes the punishment from the school wasn’t a deterrent and it was up to those parents to punish at home. When do poor kids get public punishments? You want that it should be broadcasted what punishment every student gets. It’s not your business. Just bec you saw part of the story doesn’t mean you know what goes on behind closed doors. Be Dan lekaf zchus and don’t be so jealous.October 6, 2013 1:44 pm at 1:44 pm #983155
interjection, oftentimes chaim nebech and richie rich do the same infraction such as disrupt class to take an example, and by chaim nebech the teacher gives it to him hard and on the spot in front of everyone while by richie rich the teacher uses kids gloves and tells him that isnt so nice and please dont do that again. and often the rich kid repeats this infraction and keeps getting off with warnings while the poor shlub gets all the petch on his first infraction and every time it happens. and this type of response, in some places, is systemic and obvious to all that wealth is a factor in crime and punishment.October 6, 2013 6:36 pm at 6:36 pm #983156
I heard a story years ago and while I’ve forgotten the details, the gist was something like this. Perhaps someone else can fill in the details.
When R’ Chaim Brisker was a kid his father sent him to learn under a local melamed. At one point during the day, the melamed went out of the room for a few minutes, and some minor crime was committed. When the rebbe returned to the room, he placed the blame on a poor boy, whose father was unable to pay much for his son’s participation, instead of a rich boy whose father paid well. Chaim stormed out and refused to return. He explained to his father, the Beis Halevi, that he could not learn under someone who perpetrated such injustice, and his father did not send him back.
Unrelated, but another good story about R’ Chaim as a kid:
Once, he had an altercation with another boy. It was reported to the Beis Halevi that Chaim had struck the boy two times. The Beis Halevi asked the boy why he had done that, and Chaim explained that the other boy had hit him first.
“But he only hit you once,” the Beis Halevi objected. “Why did you hit him back two times?”
“I had to hit him twice,” Chaim explained. “One time to pay him back for hitting me. And the second time because he had hit me for no reason so I had to hit him also for no reason.”October 6, 2013 7:07 pm at 7:07 pm #983157
Hakesef yaaneh es hakol. That’s the way it is. There are some select Rebbeim who are able to overcome that nisaayon.
Send your kid to a school where nobody has money. Then all will be treated equally.October 6, 2013 7:53 pm at 7:53 pm #983158
You get what you pay for. Many poor people do not pay full tuition, but most richer people do. I don’t see the people who pay less to fly overseas complaining that the people who pay more are getting better treatment.October 6, 2013 8:28 pm at 8:28 pm #983159
There’s a difference between better and unfair. Do you know what it is?October 6, 2013 9:16 pm at 9:16 pm #983160
No, please explainOctober 6, 2013 10:28 pm at 10:28 pm #983161
so you view chinuch as a pay to play arrangement? Thats just wonderful. I certainly hope you arent serious.October 6, 2013 10:31 pm at 10:31 pm #983162
Special treatment? Maybe you are assuming that this has something to do with the parent’s money. There could be a legitimate reason that this child was allowed to keep his cellphone, and in the example above, he was not using the phone – he received an unsolicited call.
Another story, my daughter was called by the school about her 5 year old son, who was seen hitting a classmate. Explanation – one of the other boys had hit him first. So why did he hit this child, who had not hit him? Because his parents had warned him that he is not to get in a fight with anyone smaller than him, so he picked on one of the bigger boys instead.October 7, 2013 2:57 am at 2:57 am #983164
“Send your kid to a school where nobody has money. Then all will be treated equally.”
It is a father’s obligation to teach his son Torah. Maybe it will make more sense, if only rich people will send their sons to school. Today more and more families choosing to use home schooling system for their kids (not only observant families and not only Jewish families). It is cheaper, and less stressful ( for parents and for children). I don’t believe, that child, who don’t like (I don’t say “hate”) his rebbi, will be a good student any way. The rebbi will have a smaller class, less stress and more patience – everyone in a class will be rich.October 7, 2013 12:00 pm at 12:00 pm #983165
OP: What heter do you have to be mekabel either of these stories?October 7, 2013 1:24 pm at 1:24 pm #983166
When I was young, I was once accused of doing something by another kid in the class. This kid’s father was a Rebbe in the yeshiva. Not only was I falsely accused, the kid asked some friends of his to lie and back up his story. I denied doing it, of course, and I was sent to the kindergarten class for a few days until I’d admit to doing it.
After a few days, one of his friends admitted to the Rebbe that he’d lied, and was asked to lie by the main accuser. I was brought back into class – without any apologies from anyone. I asked the Rebbe why I didn’t get an apology from the kid, and why he wasn’t being punished, and I was told to just sit down. I said, “He’s not being punished because his father is a Rebbe in the yeshiva. He gets off scot-free because of that, while I wrongly sat in kindergarten for a few days? That’s not right!”
I was then kicked out of class again because of my chutzpah.
This wasn’t the only issue I had with that yeshiva. The best part is, a few years ago they called me to ask for money. I told them to go somewhere very hot.October 7, 2013 2:01 pm at 2:01 pm #983167
Wow, Feif, that’s awful and unfortunately so common.
I think it’s amazing that you were able to stand up for yourself. (Even though it backfired) very many kids are not able to.
A good teacher would put their ego aside for the sake of chinuch (and justice) WHEN NECESSARY. We need more of those!October 7, 2013 2:06 pm at 2:06 pm #983168
sharp: The Rebbe transgressed an issur d’oraysa! Judging people differently based on their background is something that is written straight out in the Torah!
I once wrote before about another Rebbe I had in that yeshiva who did a lot of wrong to me. I actually wrote a letter to him a few years ago about it, and he apologized. The Rebbe I mentioned in this thread, however, never gave me an apology.October 7, 2013 3:53 pm at 3:53 pm #983169
I’ve come up with a term for it. “Torah Incorporated.”October 7, 2013 4:06 pm at 4:06 pm #983170
🐵 ⌨ GamanitParticipant
Discipline is an important part of education. If a father doesn’t understand that, than they deserve what their kid turns out like. Unfairness is certainly not proper, and a rebbe should know that apologizing doesn’t make him into less of a rebbe but more of one.October 7, 2013 4:15 pm at 4:15 pm #983171
You obviously dont like the way the mechanchim in this paricular school act, why would you want them educating your children. Enroll them elsewhere.October 7, 2013 4:46 pm at 4:46 pm #983173
PBT +1000October 7, 2013 5:02 pm at 5:02 pm #983174
I’ve come up with a term for it. “Torah Incorporated.”
Running a yeshiva IS big business, plus no one asks questions when you employ familiy just because they are related.
Unfortunately, I have to agree. The Rebbe and the Principal care more about their own jobs. If the rich person’s child is disciplined and the school goes under, who does that help? No one. Hurt? Everyone.
I believe the chosen response helps the most people.
(That’s not to say the child won’t grow up with issues because he was babied. He will, but that is long term).October 7, 2013 5:09 pm at 5:09 pm #983175
Right, Feif. Unfortunately some mechanchim think it’s beneath them to apologize after they did something wrong. They just have to remember that they’re human.October 7, 2013 7:20 pm at 7:20 pm #983176
attack the school, its personnel and way of doing things all you want. at the end of the day, if you disagree with their educational philosophies, and their methods of carrying them out, dont send your kids to the school. if you do, you have no one to blame, but yourself.October 7, 2013 7:44 pm at 7:44 pm #983177
Its not a chidush that a kid whos parents pay full tuition will be treated better than a kid whos parents arent paying in full. Yeshivos today are a business. If you are a good customer you get special treatment. Its no wonder that the yeshivos today are failing at inculcating our youth with yiras shomayim.October 7, 2013 7:56 pm at 7:56 pm #983178
Makes sense. If the rich kid leaves the school, then the poor kids won’t have a school to go to, while the rich kid will just go to another school.
So you aren’t favoring him to protect the rich folks. You’re protecting the poor folks.October 7, 2013 9:09 pm at 9:09 pm #983179
You really are a Randroid, aren’t you.October 7, 2013 9:43 pm at 9:43 pm #983180
I guess I don’t even notice it anymore.October 7, 2013 10:03 pm at 10:03 pm #983181
Alol. I postdd last night that someone is going to recruit the rich kids to yeshivas galt, but i havent seen pba in a while so i took it downOctober 7, 2013 10:41 pm at 10:41 pm #983182
Its not a chidush that a kid whos parents pay full tuition will be treated better than a kid whos parents arent paying in full. Yeshivos today are a business. If you are a good customer you get special treatment. Its no wonder that the yeshivos today are failing at inculcating our youth with yiras shomayim.
Right. I fully understand all of that. However, I don’t see why it’s considered unfair treatment to encourage a kid to apologize to another kid. When in the world would he get a proper chinuch?
We’re not talking about punishing him, or sending him to the principal. We’re talking about *apologizing*.
And if the Rebbe chose to consider it unfair to the rich kid, then fine. Nobody’s stopping the Rebbe from apologizing on his own behalf instead.October 7, 2013 11:06 pm at 11:06 pm #983183
I’ve come up with a term for it. “Torah Incorporated.”
WOW! I just realized that this could mean so many different things, depending on how you read it. Wow! What an eye-opener.October 7, 2013 11:08 pm at 11:08 pm #983184
Ok, ok, I’ll bite.
What about my post was Randy? I’m not saying it’s fair that some people have more money than others, or fair that some people’s dads have more money than others–I’m just pointing out that its in the poor kids best interests to cut the rich kids some slack.October 27, 2013 5:33 pm at 5:33 pm #983185
yes i forgot one very important detail that most of the kids were paying full tuition just some parents might have donated a litle more to the deans pocketOctober 27, 2013 8:52 pm at 8:52 pm #983186
The little I knowParticipant
Great story. One minor correction. The child was the Beis Halevi.
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