Speed Davening

depends which davening youre talking about. every day davening or yomim noraim etc…

also depends on what kind of crowd your davening with:

frum regular davening takes 45 minutes

in A Yeshiva with waiting for the Rosh Yeshiva it can take an hour

in a reform synagogue it can be a quick 20 minutes.

“frum regular davening takes 45 minutes”

What’s “regular”?

“Shul where people have to go to work go quicker than places where people learn afterwards and have more time.”

Why do people who learn have more time than people who work?

Why do people who learn have more time than people who work?

If you learn you can come in 9, 9:10 , 9:30 or whatever. Saying you were late because of Davening is acceptable

However if you work

You need to be there at 9, some places will write you up or fire you for being late. I heard of one place that had 15 employees and 12 desks and if you showed up late you didnt get a desk and had to go home and saying “I had to Pray” is no excuse, the boss doesnt care. Either pray earlier or pray faster or get a new job

“If you learn you can come in 9, 9:10 , 9:30 or whatever. Saying you were late because of Davening is acceptable”

I understand that it has become acceptable, but I don’t think it should be.

Some people work for a living, others learn for a living. The learning people should take learning as seriously as the working people take working.

The learning people should take learning as seriously as the working people take working.

Also, the working people should take davening as seriously as do the learning people.

What makes you think the learning people are more serious than the workers?

Do you think its so easy to get up at 5am for Daf yomi, then daven at 6am and then leave for work to be there at 9am

What makes you think the learning people are more serious than the workers?

It was a response to Meno.

Communiting from Monsey can take a while to almost anywhere outside of Rockland, Commuting from Kiyat Joel takes even longer.

I know quite a few people who commute to Manhattan or Brooklyn from Lakewood

Communiting from Monsey can take a while to almost anywhere outside of Rockland, Commuting from Kiyat Joel takes even longer.

I know quite a few people who commute to Manhattan or Brooklyn from Lakewood

That’s still a minority of commuters.

ZD Getting up at 5 AM for a Daf Yomi and davening at 6 AM. Unless you sleep in the Bais Medrash it’s going to take you 30 minutes to get showered and dressed and drive there. It’s going to be hard to cover the daf in the remaining 30 minutes. Also the earliest you can put on Talis and Tefillin in Brooklyn NY today is 6:09.

MA I didn’t know Reform Synagogues have minyanim during the week.

I assume this is referring to Shacharis (morning prayers) as 45 minutes is kind of long for Mincha (afternoon prayers) even in a Yeshiva.

Most people who are learning, live local to where they learn and thus the commute time is less of a burden.

And I know that ZD is under the impression that learning people are not serious about their time, but I know that where I daven there are number of Kollel yungeliet who learn with working people every morning and they are learning from 5:30 am. And those same yungerliet have full day sedorim and learn to 10 oclock every night, even missing family simchas not to miss sedorim. And they will show up at 6 M on Friday after finishing a Thursday night mishmar at 1AM.

That is beaides a seperate Kollel that learns in the same location which starts davening at 7:15 and stays straight to the end of afternoon Seder.

The hours are longer than almost any working person I know.

And it is even on Sundays.

Joseph thank you for opening an interesting thread! I was afraid it was going to be Trump forever!

Meno:”I understand that it has become acceptable, but I don’t think it should be.

Some people work for a living, others learn for a living. The learning people should take learning as seriously as the working people take working.”

I’m not so sure about that. Maybe people can take learning seriously and still be late to Kolel. While surely it’s important to keep times, some people might have to be somewhere else, or they are just not punctual.

There are actually job places where it’s acceptable to come to work late. I hear programmers do this often. why not compare learners to them? Or to self-employed people who come and go as they please?

It could be a problem of Gezel though, if someone gets payed for full hours while not being there all the time…

Joseph: “Davening is part of the Avoda of a learning man”

Davening is part of the Avoda of every man or woman! It doesn’t take from the rest of what you said, but I just couldn’t read this sentence.

“So spending more time davening at the expense of an equal amount of time of less learning is not a problem and is, indeed, just as worthy as his learning.”

I’m not sure everyone would agree. Do you have sources for that?

What if you finish Shmone Esre in 1.5 minutes, but you daven at a minyan where they take 5 minutes to finish. Is davening there still worth the time?

To answer the question, I think it’s an individual matter. Everyone should be aware of where they are in Avodas Hashem and which Minyan is appropriate for them (But like many good things today, where you daven has become a matter of social status)

On a side note, i’m considering this new internet law: “As a frum online discussion grows longer, the probability of it becoming a learners-workers fight approaches 1”. I hope this thread refutes it (:

what is speed dating? isnt that shidduch dating?

Davening should not be too fast to allow pronouncing every word at a pace one would use in normal conversation. Would anyone disagree with that?

WinnieThePooh – According to wiki “Speed dating is a formalized matchmaking process of dating system whose purpose is to encourage people to meet a large number of new people. Its origins are credited to Rabbi Yaacov Deyo of Aish HaTorah, originally as a way to help Jewish singles meet and marry”. so it sounds like its for jewish people?

Sparkly, I know what speed dating is, and how it began, I just don’t think this is the place to discuss it.

Meno – How do you date and daven at the same time. I am assuming you are davening with a minyan. Even if you are davening alone, how can you talk to Hashem and a girl at the same time.

Meno I suppose that happens when you daven and your mind drifts off to yesterday’s date. You recreate it in your mind only now you say all the right things! That’s dating while davening.

I guess you could have have referred to when a guy remembers during the date that he didn’t daven Mincha, and so he apologizes nicely and steps aside to daven. That would be speed davening as well probably!

ZD

“I heard of one place that had 15 employees and 12 desks and if you showed up late you didnt get a desk and had to go home. “

Sounds strange. What if all 15 showed up on time? Or early?

Joseph – it was many years ago, so I no longer remember. I assume that I couldn’t daven after the date because it was almost shkiya. I assume that I didn’t daven beforehand either because it was too early when I left my house or because I didn’t have time.

In any case, davening Mincha on a date is not a big deal – it takes 5 minutes if you’re speed davening – that’s not what bothered him, it was the idea that I was davening Mincha altogether.

Actually, he hadn’t davened Mincha yet himself, so we had to end the date so he could go to shul. In fact, when I told him that I had to daven Mincha, he thought at first that I was reminding him to daven Mincha, since it hadn’t occurred to him that girls daven Minhcha.

Someone always showed up late, People just quit after being sent home a few times.

I am glad I do not work at such a place. I dont think thats a good environment where the employer pits the employees against each other

Abba_S – what makes you think I’m in my 20’s and married?

You totally misunderstood my comment about dating – it has nothing to do with the guys I go out with or how I relate to them. It just has to do with the fact that the whole shidduch system is not a good system for me right now for many reasons, so I have to come up with something different.

Person1 – thanks for sticking up for me!

ZD – I wasn’t chasvishalom in any way trying to put down the shidduch system. It is just that for me personally at the moment it is not a good system. This mainly has to do with specific aspects of my life that make it impractical for me. Also, I am not in my 20’s, so that makes things very different. At my age, Gedolim are generally in favor of singles’ events even though I imagine they don’t consider them the best method (in general) for young singles who are just starting to date.

I do go to singles’ events occasionally, but they do not have very many of them in the communities in which I’ve been living for the past several years. The Yeshivish world has only started doing these things recently. I definitely see the drawbacks to singles’ events, but I think that they are a good option for me right now personally. I also wish that people would host single guys and girls at Shabbos meals at the same time. It’s possible that it’s not appropriate for young singles, but people should definitely consider it for older singles. I am not blaming anyone; I think that it just doesn’t occur to people that it might be a good idea.

I also wish that the oilam could come up with some other option other than any of the above mentioned.

ZD – I know you weren’t! I was just concerned that it might have sounded like I was, so I wanted to make it clear that I wasn’t.

Dovrosenbuam How do you get a 5-7 hour davening on Yom Kippur. We started 7:30 AM and finished after 7:30 PM with an hour and a half break. The fast didn’t end in Brooklyn, NY until 7:30 if you hold 72 minute. Even 7 hours is a fast Davening for Yom Kippur remember you are davening Sacharis, Mussuf, Mincha, Neellah and Marriv.