Speed Davening

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  • This topic contains 49 replies, has 18 voices, and was last updated by  Abba_S 3 years ago.
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  • #618485

    Joseph
    Participant

    How fast is too fast and how fast is okay?

    #1186106

    depends which davening youre talking about. every day davening or yomim noraim etc…

    also depends on what kind of crowd your davening with:

    frum regular davening takes 45 minutes

    in A Yeshiva with waiting for the Rosh Yeshiva it can take an hour

    in a reform synagogue it can be a quick 20 minutes.

    #1186107

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    Shul where people have to go to work go quicker than places where people learn afterwards and have more time.

    #1186108

    Meno
    Participant

    “frum regular davening takes 45 minutes”

    What’s “regular”?

    “Shul where people have to go to work go quicker than places where people learn afterwards and have more time.”

    Why do people who learn have more time than people who work?

    #1186109

    ANONANO
    Participant

    Every shul and every person is different. We have to get rid of a holier than though attitude towards other people and learn to focus on our own davening. Go at the speed that you feel comfortable with whether fast or slow and that is OK and don’t let outside pressures factor in.

    #1186110

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    Why do people who learn have more time than people who work?

    If you learn you can come in 9, 9:10 , 9:30 or whatever. Saying you were late because of Davening is acceptable

    However if you work

    You need to be there at 9, some places will write you up or fire you for being late. I heard of one place that had 15 employees and 12 desks and if you showed up late you didnt get a desk and had to go home and saying “I had to Pray” is no excuse, the boss doesnt care. Either pray earlier or pray faster or get a new job

    #1186111

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    What about people who are self-employed?

    #1186112

    Meno
    Participant

    “If you learn you can come in 9, 9:10 , 9:30 or whatever. Saying you were late because of Davening is acceptable”

    I understand that it has become acceptable, but I don’t think it should be.

    Some people work for a living, others learn for a living. The learning people should take learning as seriously as the working people take working.

    #1186113

    TheGoq
    Participant

    MA have you davened many times in a reform shul? I am worried about the depths to with you have sunk you used to be on such a high level do teshuva!!!

    #1186114

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    The learning people should take learning as seriously as the working people take working.

    Also, the working people should take davening as seriously as do the learning people.

    #1186115

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    MA have you davened many times in a reform shul?

    Not for more than 20 minutes at a time.

    #1186116

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    What makes you think the learning people are more serious than the workers?

    Do you think its so easy to get up at 5am for Daf yomi, then daven at 6am and then leave for work to be there at 9am

    #1186117

    Meno
    Participant

    “Also, the working people should take davening as seriously as do the learning people.”

    Agreed

    #1186118

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    What makes you think the learning people are more serious than the workers?

    It was a response to Meno.

    #1186119

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Do you think its so easy to get up at 5am for Daf yomi, then daven at 6am and then leave for work to be there at 9am

    You’re assuming a very long commute.

    #1186120

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    Communiting from Monsey can take a while to almost anywhere outside of Rockland, Commuting from Kiyat Joel takes even longer.

    I know quite a few people who commute to Manhattan or Brooklyn from Lakewood

    #1186121

    Joseph
    Participant

    Davening is part of the Avoda of a learning man. So spending more time davening at the expense of an equal amount of time of less learning is not a problem and is, indeed, just as worthy as his learning.

    #1186122

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Communiting from Monsey can take a while to almost anywhere outside of Rockland, Commuting from Kiyat Joel takes even longer.

    I know quite a few people who commute to Manhattan or Brooklyn from Lakewood

    That’s still a minority of commuters.

    #1186123

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    Probably takes 45 mins at least door to door from Borough park to Midtown

    #1186124

    Abba_S
    Participant

    ZD Getting up at 5 AM for a Daf Yomi and davening at 6 AM. Unless you sleep in the Bais Medrash it’s going to take you 30 minutes to get showered and dressed and drive there. It’s going to be hard to cover the daf in the remaining 30 minutes. Also the earliest you can put on Talis and Tefillin in Brooklyn NY today is 6:09.

    MA I didn’t know Reform Synagogues have minyanim during the week.

    I assume this is referring to Shacharis (morning prayers) as 45 minutes is kind of long for Mincha (afternoon prayers) even in a Yeshiva.

    #1186125

    meno & hillary

    i haven’t davened in a reform shul in my life B”H i walked into one ONCE because today it became a frum orthodox shul.

    20 minutes was just a guess versus 45 minutes regularly

    have a frum true life ahead

    #1186126

    nishtdayngesheft
    Participant

    Most people who are learning, live local to where they learn and thus the commute time is less of a burden.

    And I know that ZD is under the impression that learning people are not serious about their time, but I know that where I daven there are number of Kollel yungeliet who learn with working people every morning and they are learning from 5:30 am. And those same yungerliet have full day sedorim and learn to 10 oclock every night, even missing family simchas not to miss sedorim. And they will show up at 6 M on Friday after finishing a Thursday night mishmar at 1AM.

    That is beaides a seperate Kollel that learns in the same location which starts davening at 7:15 and stays straight to the end of afternoon Seder.

    The hours are longer than almost any working person I know.

    And it is even on Sundays.

    #1186127

    takahmamash
    Participant

    frum regular davening takes 45 minutes

    If you are talking about weekday shacharit, then it obviously depends on the shule and minyan, and if the minyan starts with brachot or at Rabi Yishmael, etc. The minyan I normally attend during the week takes about 32 or 33 minutes on non-laining days, and about 40 minutes on laining days. (nusach Sfard, starting at Rabi Yishmael)

    #1186128

    Person1
    Member

    Joseph thank you for opening an interesting thread! I was afraid it was going to be Trump forever!

    Meno:”I understand that it has become acceptable, but I don’t think it should be.

    Some people work for a living, others learn for a living. The learning people should take learning as seriously as the working people take working.”

    I’m not so sure about that. Maybe people can take learning seriously and still be late to Kolel. While surely it’s important to keep times, some people might have to be somewhere else, or they are just not punctual.

    There are actually job places where it’s acceptable to come to work late. I hear programmers do this often. why not compare learners to them? Or to self-employed people who come and go as they please?

    It could be a problem of Gezel though, if someone gets payed for full hours while not being there all the time…

    Joseph: “Davening is part of the Avoda of a learning man”

    Davening is part of the Avoda of every man or woman! It doesn’t take from the rest of what you said, but I just couldn’t read this sentence.

    “So spending more time davening at the expense of an equal amount of time of less learning is not a problem and is, indeed, just as worthy as his learning.”

    I’m not sure everyone would agree. Do you have sources for that?

    What if you finish Shmone Esre in 1.5 minutes, but you daven at a minyan where they take 5 minutes to finish. Is davening there still worth the time?

    To answer the question, I think it’s an individual matter. Everyone should be aware of where they are in Avodas Hashem and which Minyan is appropriate for them (But like many good things today, where you daven has become a matter of social status)

    On a side note, i’m considering this new internet law: “As a frum online discussion grows longer, the probability of it becoming a learners-workers fight approaches 1”. I hope this thread refutes it (:

    #1186129

    Joseph
    Participant

    Person1, why would you doubt that spending an extra 30 minutes on having more kavana during davening, at the expense of 30 minutes of less learning, is anything other than worthwhile?

    #1186130

    Sparkly
    Member

    what is speed dating? isnt that shidduch dating?

    #1186131

    WinnieThePooh
    Participant

    We’re talking about davening not dating, Sparkly. And no it isn’t the same as shidduch dating.

    #1186132

    tiawd
    Participant

    Davening should not be too fast to allow pronouncing every word at a pace one would use in normal conversation. Would anyone disagree with that?

    #1186133

    Sparkly
    Member

    WinnieThePooh – goyim speed date whatever that is.

    #1186134

    Sparkly
    Member

    WinnieThePooh – According to wiki “Speed dating is a formalized matchmaking process of dating system whose purpose is to encourage people to meet a large number of new people. Its origins are credited to Rabbi Yaacov Deyo of Aish HaTorah, originally as a way to help Jewish singles meet and marry”. so it sounds like its for jewish people?

    #1186135

    grepsoops
    Participant

    This whole discussion baffles me!. Everybody should focus on his own davining &

    spiritually and be involved and help each other with whatever you can .See the good in EVERYONE , love and help each other and only speak good about each other and moshiach comes tomorrow! learner, worker, what ever category or tile

    are all HASHEM’S chosen , A creation of Hashem, who are we to judge anyone. Everyone has his Malois and Chesronois . Look at your own Chesronois and the others malois.

    May all yidden have a gemar chasima tova with love. from a simple jew with a lot of Chesronois and a few Malois, but hashem still loves me and I love him

    PS I was on my death bed twice in my life already, and given two weeks to live by 12 doctors . may hashem bless u all all all

    #1186136

    WinnieThePooh
    Participant

    Sparkly, I know what speed dating is, and how it began, I just don’t think this is the place to discuss it.

    #1186137

    Meno
    Participant

    Speed dating is when you date while you’re davening, so as not to waste any time.

    #1186138

    Abba_S
    Participant

    Meno – How do you date and daven at the same time. I am assuming you are davening with a minyan. Even if you are davening alone, how can you talk to Hashem and a girl at the same time.

    #1186139

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    Meno: “Speed dating is when you date while you’re davening, so as not to waste any time.”

    Wow, if that could be done, that would solve my problem!! I hate dating (at least the current system), and I have been trying to come up with another way to meet my zivug. I daven twice a day anyhow, so if I could date while davening – problem solved!! The truth is there is a mesorah for such a thing – Yitzchak and Rivka did it. Well actually, Yitzchak and Eliezer did the davening – all Rivka had to do was draw water and feed it to camels. I’d 1,000 times rather do that than go on a date!!

    #1186140

    Person1
    Member

    Meno I suppose that happens when you daven and your mind drifts off to yesterday’s date. You recreate it in your mind only now you say all the right things! That’s dating while davening.

    I guess you could have have referred to when a guy remembers during the date that he didn’t daven Mincha, and so he apologizes nicely and steps aside to daven. That would be speed davening as well probably!

    #1186141

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    Person1 – reminds me of the time I told the guy I had to daven Mincha. He was shocked, and asked me when I took upon myself to daven Mincha. He seemed to think there was something feminist about a girl davening Mincha, and he didn’t seem to believe me that it’s a chiyuv according to halacha.

    My friend told me that if the guy was intimidated by my Mincha, he clearly wasn’t for me.

    #1186144

    adocs
    Participant

    ZD

    “I heard of one place that had 15 employees and 12 desks and if you showed up late you didnt get a desk and had to go home. “

    Sounds strange. What if all 15 showed up on time? Or early?

    #1186145

    Joseph
    Participant

    Lilmod, why couldn’t you daven before or after the date?

    #1186146

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    Joseph – it was many years ago, so I no longer remember. I assume that I couldn’t daven after the date because it was almost shkiya. I assume that I didn’t daven beforehand either because it was too early when I left my house or because I didn’t have time.

    In any case, davening Mincha on a date is not a big deal – it takes 5 minutes if you’re speed davening – that’s not what bothered him, it was the idea that I was davening Mincha altogether.

    Actually, he hadn’t davened Mincha yet himself, so we had to end the date so he could go to shul. In fact, when I told him that I had to daven Mincha, he thought at first that I was reminding him to daven Mincha, since it hadn’t occurred to him that girls daven Minhcha.

    #1186147

    Abba_S
    Participant

    Person1 If the date is going bad and the boy has no idea what to talk about you are advising the boy to hop in a minyan to kill some time and try to get ideas as to what to talk about. Landua’s in Flatbush or Shomer Shabbos in Boro Park have minyanim for Mincha every 15 minutes from about 1:30 PM until Shkia. Does anyone know if the ladies section is open for ladies for Mincha during the week at Landua’s

    LU – I am pretty sure you are a female, sometimes you give me the impression you are a twenty something and married other times you seem to be single. I don’t really care what you are. I am not a Shadchin nor a therapist, I am a father and husband who is 60+ and if I met you on the street I would not be having this conversation . I got married when I was 28 and was over the hill so I know how you feel. But when you say you would rather feed camels than go on a date you are portraying negativity which I think the boys feel and it turns them off. Today everyone has a resume, only accept dates with those who you have common goals with. Many older single boys have trouble making conversation so if you keep the conversation going with both parties participating I think the boy would greatly appreciate it. Hopefully,if you are single, may you meet your Chasson this year. Just make sure he wants a wife who is his equal not a cook and maid who is his slave.

    I am basing these comments on my interpretation which maybe far from the truth. I prefer this being anonymous so please don’t reveal any information that can identify you as it would be awkward if we met. I am sorry if any of my comments can be interpreted as offensive. Wishing everyone a Gmar Chasama Tova.

    #1186148

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    Someone always showed up late, People just quit after being sent home a few times.

    I am glad I do not work at such a place. I dont think thats a good environment where the employer pits the employees against each other

    #1186149

    Person1
    Member

    Abba_S it’s the second time today you’ve offered LU dating advice she didn’t ask you for. I have to say that: You’re acting weird.

    #1186150

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    Abba_S – what makes you think I’m in my 20’s and married?

    You totally misunderstood my comment about dating – it has nothing to do with the guys I go out with or how I relate to them. It just has to do with the fact that the whole shidduch system is not a good system for me right now for many reasons, so I have to come up with something different.

    Person1 – thanks for sticking up for me!

    #1186151

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    It just has to do with the fact that the whole shidduch system is not a good system for me right now for many reasons,

    The problem with any one system is that it is not one size fits all. I know people who the more modern dating was a better system for them (Like people from more modern backround with not such yichus) and I know others where the more traditional Shidduch system was better as they dont appear as good on first meeting than they really are

    #1186152

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    ZD – I wasn’t chasvishalom in any way trying to put down the shidduch system. It is just that for me personally at the moment it is not a good system. This mainly has to do with specific aspects of my life that make it impractical for me. Also, I am not in my 20’s, so that makes things very different. At my age, Gedolim are generally in favor of singles’ events even though I imagine they don’t consider them the best method (in general) for young singles who are just starting to date.

    I do go to singles’ events occasionally, but they do not have very many of them in the communities in which I’ve been living for the past several years. The Yeshivish world has only started doing these things recently. I definitely see the drawbacks to singles’ events, but I think that they are a good option for me right now personally. I also wish that people would host single guys and girls at Shabbos meals at the same time. It’s possible that it’s not appropriate for young singles, but people should definitely consider it for older singles. I am not blaming anyone; I think that it just doesn’t occur to people that it might be a good idea.

    I also wish that the oilam could come up with some other option other than any of the above mentioned.

    #1186153

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    I wasnt putting down any system, I was just saying one size doesnt fit all.

    #1186154

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    ZD – I know you weren’t! I was just concerned that it might have sounded like I was, so I wanted to make it clear that I wasn’t.

    #1186155

    dovrosenbaum
    Participant

    Yom Kippur services in a Reform temple are maybe 2 hours, compared to 5-7 hours for a halachic davening.

    I am not aware of any single Reform place with a morning minyan

    #1186156

    Abba_S
    Participant

    Dovrosenbuam How do you get a 5-7 hour davening on Yom Kippur. We started 7:30 AM and finished after 7:30 PM with an hour and a half break. The fast didn’t end in Brooklyn, NY until 7:30 if you hold 72 minute. Even 7 hours is a fast Davening for Yom Kippur remember you are davening Sacharis, Mussuf, Mincha, Neellah and Marriv.

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