August 9, 2013 12:03 am at 12:03 am #610315
Why do people give a hoot about sports? I’ve been watching two people arguing if LeBron James or Kobe Briant is better for two hours now. Are they stupid, or am I ignorant? Please answer with brains.August 9, 2013 8:20 pm at 8:20 pm #970753TheGoqParticipant
If you dont care why did you watch for two hours and its Bryant not Briant, Kobe has five rings and lebron 2 Kobe’s career probably will be over in 3 to 4 years while lebron has another 8-10 years.August 10, 2013 6:29 pm at 6:29 pm #970754
Exactly; I don’t care enough to know how to spell his name. And I wasn’t watching b’retzifus, if you know what I mean, but they were floating in and out of my consciousness (and the room I was trying to use) for about two hours. It’s not that I think sports are dumb (I do), it’s just that arguing about it won’t change anything. At least in politics, you’re supposed to have an opinion/vote.August 11, 2013 2:25 am at 2:25 am #970755This name is already takenParticipant
Have you ever seen the game where one guy says the initials of a sports player and the other guy has to guess?
Now about you q personally I am not into sports but I understand if someone follows it, everyone finds different things interesting, though the case you disproved is OOCAugust 11, 2013 2:27 am at 2:27 am #970756
People watch sports because of its entertainment value.August 11, 2013 2:49 am at 2:49 am #970757Jersey JewParticipant
In my younger days i was a big sports fan, hockey & baseball were my sports. Following sports is one of the last semi-kosher outlets we have left. The hope is that it is kept in perspective as to what is really the emes.
I will say that my sports fan bubble burst when i met a hall of fame ball player, gave him a pen & a ball for an autograph, & three minutes later, with the pen & ball in his hand, asked me what it was i had asked for. By the way he was shikir.August 11, 2013 3:32 am at 3:32 am #970758
(Singing) I’M SO FRIIIIIIM! I don’t even know who is Derek Jeter! (/singing)
When I was a kid, I used to argue about this all the time – about why it makes sense to follow sports, that is; not about sports. Then as I got older, I realized that not everything has to have an explanation. Some people get immense visceral pleasure from music, others from torturing cats, others from making music that sounds like torturing cats (I’m looking at you, Ludwig). The point is that it’s a visceral, rather than moral experience, so it doesn’t require explanation.
Of course, as with any other form of pleasure, we should choose to pursue the ones that are positive rather than neutral or negative. But that doesn’t mean that it makes sense to fiddle with one’s beard hairs and question wisely and sanctimoniously how it makes sense to care so much about these SHKUTZIM because THEY don’t CARE about YOU!??!? (Thinking of my 11th grade rebbi here, not you.)August 11, 2013 3:39 am at 3:39 am #970759yaakov doeParticipant
What the atletes do off the field is now the entertainment. They are no longer role models for kids like DiMagio and Maris were.August 11, 2013 6:44 am at 6:44 am #970760August 11, 2013 11:44 am at 11:44 am #970761
@Veltz Great reference, I’m afraid I set myself up for that one.
To be clear, I’m not coming from a religious perspective. I agree; sports is one of the last remaining “kosher” entertainments we have left, and I don’t see anything terribly wrong with it.
I’m not talking about watching a game (definitely enjoyable) or even following sports (questionably enjoyable). I’m talking about arguing about sports. I don’t think it’s a topic which makes sense to have an opinion about.
For instance, an argument about whether democracy, monarchy, or oligarchy is best for a country is a sensible argument. Each side can have valid opinions, proofs, and logical differences, obviously. It is an opinionated argument based on facts. But arguing about sports (or more specifically, sports players) is completely opinion – because the numbers are all on paper. The five rings and the two rings; the batting averages; the assists; the touchdowns; they’re all there to compare mathematically. So claiming that “Kobe Bryant is the best player in the NBA” is a meaningless, one-sided, completely opinionated statement. That’s it.
I bet none of this was clear from my original post.August 11, 2013 1:48 pm at 1:48 pm #970762The FrumguyParticipant
Do you ever listen to those ridiculous sports radio stations? They can go on and on for what seems an eternity to discuss what WOULD happen if so and so played for this team or if so and so pitched better…
LevAryeh, you’re correct. It is so theoretical and hypothetical and it doesn’t make the slightest difference in the grand scheme of things — both as frum Jews and even non-Jews.
P.S. Love your videos!August 11, 2013 3:22 pm at 3:22 pm #970763
Lev Aryeh and The Frum Guy: As someone who has listened to too many arguments on WFAN about whether Eli Manning is an ELITE player, or merely an EXCEPTIONAL player I completely agree that there is such a thing as a bad sports argument. And one of my favorite pet peeves is when someone says “I guarantee that if CC Sabathia had been on the ’97 Yankees, they would have won the world series”, which makes no sense because you can’t guarantee something that is by definition hypothetical.
But there are also many potential good arguments to be had about sports, even arguments that employ hypotheticals. For example, people talk about how a hypothetical player e.g. Declon Thames is not as good as another hypothetical player, e.g. Mike L. Riordan, because he has fewer championships, or because he had to go find other superstars to team up with. But as it turns out, Mike L. Riordan happened to have two other hall of fame players on his team each time he won a championship. At the same time, people say that, e.g. Ike Crown is not a good coach because he’s only ever done anything with Declon Thames on his team. But no well known coach has ever won anything without a superstar on his team (except for a hypothetical coach named Barry Crown, who won with the Michigan Solenoids), and those same people will be quick to tell you that Declon had no supporting cast and that’s why he had to take his talents to East Shore. In that context, hypotheticals can be useful. And as with the visceral pleasure from watching a game, enjoying such arguments need not be defended.August 11, 2013 4:19 pm at 4:19 pm #970764
Thanks Frumguy, I’m glad you enjoyed!
I once heard someone discussing football during draft season, and he was discussing which teams should pick which players. This manager should pay this guy that amount because he’s the best in the league, yada yada yada. I told him I’m glad he has it all worked out, and he should definitely call the manager and help him make his decision. Right.August 11, 2013 5:22 pm at 5:22 pm #970765midwesternerParticipant
YD: How about Babe Ruth and Mickey Mantle, two perpetual drunkards who basically drank themselves to death (Mantle more so than Ruth)? Or Ty Cobb who sharpened his spikes extra in order to hurt opposing payers while sliding into bases.
I don’t know that you could ever learn anything about lifestyle, even from the real old time athletes either!August 11, 2013 6:16 pm at 6:16 pm #970766oomisParticipant
Though a female, I have always preferred to PLAY sports, rather than watch someone else do the same thing. Football totally turns me off (too violent), baseball is more fun when I am up at bat or center field (those days are LONG gone), and ditto for basketball. I absolutely LOVE volleyball, and was a pretty decent server in my day. The only sport I can stand to watch (if you call it a sport) is gymnastics or artistic iceskating. Sorry, guys, but I have no idea why sitting for hours and mindlessly watching this stuff appeals to you. But hey, I am not the sports police.August 11, 2013 6:16 pm at 6:16 pm #970767oomisParticipant
I don’t mean to disparage the many outstanding young men who actually LIKE to watch sports.August 11, 2013 9:31 pm at 9:31 pm #970768N.GMemberAugust 11, 2013 11:16 pm at 11:16 pm #970769Chochom-ibberParticipant
ITS ALL NARISHKITE. Unfortunately we all privy ourselves to some amount of shtoosim. What can we do?? Work on ourselves. We know whats good and whats bad, whats right and whats wrong, whats Emmes and whats shtoos. Just dont try convincing other people that “there is nothing wrong with sports”, cause then your in denial and have but little hope.August 12, 2013 12:30 am at 12:30 am #970770
Good argument, N.G. It matters very much.August 12, 2013 2:49 pm at 2:49 pm #970771BoruchSchwartzParticipant
I hold that football is avodah zara. During football season every sunday frum yidden plant themselves in front of the tv from early in the morning, to watch the pre game analyses, until the wee hours of monday morning so they can watch the analyses of every game afterwards. And then of course monday has a din of yom kippur to these people because of monday night football (yemach shmo). People are beyond obsessed with it its mamish insane. People will miss weddings and other important events because chas v’shalom they should miss a minute of a football game. What a bizayon hatoira! The other sports from my observation are not worshiped to the same degree.August 12, 2013 4:24 pm at 4:24 pm #970772Nigritude UltramarineMember
Is there something wrong with Tennis or Golf? Is that foolish to you. Sheesh. No fun in life is just bland.August 12, 2013 6:23 pm at 6:23 pm #970773Chochom-ibberParticipant
@Nigritude Ultramarine, absolutely not. Nothing wrong with Tennis, Golf or any sport for that matter. Playing it that is. But to go follow every shaigitz and shiksa that made that play and this stat is… that’s right, wrong! Then you even have those “whats wrong with sports” people that must follow the entire dating life, marriage, treason and divorce of their sports idols. Sheesh right back at you.August 12, 2013 6:46 pm at 6:46 pm #970774benignumanParticipant
Because they enjoy it.
Sports and following sports and arguing about sports are fun. It doesn’t make sense why people enjoy food and enjoy making food and enjoy arguing about food, but people enjoy it.August 12, 2013 8:51 pm at 8:51 pm #970776
Now you can get football on your phone with direct TV (Thanks Payton and Eli!) so they won’t have to miss the weddings!August 12, 2013 11:39 pm at 11:39 pm #970777Burnt SteakParticipant
So any thoughts about the first week of preseason football? I think NFC North could be the best division in the NFL
and BoruchSchwartz you forgot thursday night football and College football on/after shabbosAugust 13, 2013 12:23 am at 12:23 am #970778TheGoqParticipant
Because its healthy to have a hobby
all Beis Medrash and no play makes Yaakov a dull boyAugust 14, 2013 2:52 am at 2:52 am #970779
I hold that eating Chinese food is mamash znus.
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